S2 #7 'Marketing - the key ingredient to building a conscious business', with Claudia Guerreiro.

Season 2 Episode 7


[00:00:53] James Gill: Hi there. I'm James from EcoSend, and I'm really pleased to bring you another episode of the EcoSend Podcast. If this is the first time listening to the show, the EcoSend podcast is a weekly show where we bring you a conversation with another person who's either running or working in a purpose-driven business of some sort with a real focus on the climate.

[00:01:13] This week I am thrilled to be joined by Claudia. And Claudia is a passionate, freelance digital marketer with more than eight years of experience working globally. She's all about empowering women and helping purpose-driven businesses. Claudia is known for her conscious marketer approach. She's on a mission to make marketing a force for good, which is exactly what we wanna hear on this show, Claudia.

[00:01:39] So, hi Claudia. How you doing? We'd love to hear a bit more about yourself in your own words and and learn more.

[00:01:45] Cláudia Guerreiro: Hi everyone. I'm so excited to be here today. Thank you so much, James, for inviting me. I really can't wait to dig in into all this topics, but first of all, thank you for inviting me and I'm just really thrilled. Yes. I'm Claudia and my surname is Guerreiro which means warrior in English. I'm originally from Portugal, but I have been living all over the world, including the UK, France, Singapore, Cambodia, and I'm now based in Germany. So I've been very privileged to travel a lot and live in various different places. And so I really enjoy living outside of my comfort zone, and I love the flexibility of remote work.

[00:02:29] I want to use my skills, my marketing skills for good. I really want us to change the world, and I believe that marketing is such a big force that can help to do that.

[00:02:42] James Gill: Awesome. That is great. I know marketing sometimes in certain worlds gets a bad name. I, it is so nice to hear a, a positive stance and a message that marketing can do so much. Good. So, yeah. Very keen to dig into this. Claudia. I, I guess like, I would love to talk to you a bit more about your journey into this world of sustainability and, and climate and like what I, what got you into this?

[00:03:08] Did you just wake up one day and think purpose driven marketing's good, I'm gonna do this, or, yeah. What was your journey into this world? Yeah.

[00:03:18] Cláudia Guerreiro: Well, it's, it's been a complicated process for sure. I don't think we learn marketing conscious marketing, neither sustainable marketing in school. Particularly university. We learn, you know, how to make a business basically get sales. And you know, it's, and it doesn't really matter how sometimes, which is pretty much unethical sometimes marketing.

[00:03:42] And ethics don't go hand in hand, it seems. And that's just so bad. Like I asked the other day, my community on LinkedIn, what were three words that they would associate to marketing. There were a lot of positive words such as community, creativity you know, inclusivity and so on. But there were also a lot of negative words such as manipulative, tricky growth hacks and so on.

[00:04:08] So I really believe that there has to be a better way to do marketing. That it's not just focused on profits and getting money to our pockets. And so I've did, I did not start as a conscious Marketer I started as a normal Marketer. I learned the growth hacks and all of that. And at some point I just really started to question myself what was the impact that I was having in the world?

[00:04:33] For example it's very clear that a lot of Marketers use fear-based tactics, you know, to get people to buy. So, for example, fear of missing out, fear of not being pretty enough, fear of not being, of not having enough fear of like our neighbor being better. Fear of not being knowledgeable enough and, and so on.

[00:04:54] You know, the list is really big to get someone to buy something. So basically to trigger this nasty feelings to get someone to do a purchase. And at some point I just really started to question myself, like what I was doing in this world. You know, our generation has been so impacted by ads, has been so impacted by social media.

[00:05:15] And, you know, it is time to spread some positivity and spread and do marketing in just a different way that does not cause our mental health to get worse, right? So it's really time for a different approach. And so I did take myself a six months career break because I thought I was gonna quit Marketing in general.

[00:05:36] I just thought it wasn't for me. I just found it really difficult to. To be part of this of, of this consumerism that that is bringing so much bad to the world. And that's when I woke up and I was like, no, I am sure that there's a, a better way to do this. There has to be a sustainable, inclusive, impactful way of doing Marketing.

[00:06:00] And so I. Restarted my, my job search, but I had a real, once I finished my career break, I restarted my job search, but I had let's say a supermarket list of things that I wanted for my next job. And so at the end, I did not find exactly a company that would have all that would Basically be within all this criteria that I had for myself, for my next job.

[00:06:26] And I decided to just create my own job because I'm a trail blazer and I believe that, you know, we can do it. So I became a digital marketing freelancer through the this way. And you know, I've been working only with purpose-driven businesses, particularly purpose-driven businesses that have at least one female founder.

[00:06:46] And I'm so proud now to work with amazing companies that are doing change and po and good things to the world, such as climate tech, wellness you know, online communities and so on. So many different women entrepreneurs that, that I worked with that are so inspiring and yeah, so I'm excited that, you know, People are seeing now the needs for marketing to change.

[00:07:10] And yeah, I'm, I'm happy that I can be some sort of inspiration to, to someone out there.

[00:07:16] James Gill: I, I have to admit, that's already very inspiring, Claudia. Like the idea of there's no job out there for me. I'm gonna make my own job. I, I kind of love that approach. Imagine if everyone did that, that'd be terrifying. Yeah. No, I, it's amazing. I, I know also on a personal level though, you've also made many changes in your life over the years from a, from a climate perspective, thinking about this.

[00:07:39] I'm intrigued by those. And did those happen around the same time as the sort of the career break? Was that something that maybe you were doing before the career break after like,

[00:07:48] Cláudia Guerreiro: Yes. I mean, I've always strive like for progress instead of perfection when it comes to sustainability. I think there's a lot of people that have this; fear and echo anxieties. Again, we go back to this fear-based marketing that has been basically spreading very negative emotions in the world. And I have tried my best in my personal life also to be sustainable, but aim for progress instead of perfection because.

[00:08:16] We cannot possibly do everything right. We can try our best to do as much as we can, but you know nobody's perfect when it comes to sustainability. But I do adopt as much as possible a minimalistic lifestyle, conscious dietary choices, waste reduction as much as possible. And also I do, I believe in responsible pet ownership.

[00:08:40] You know there are still a lot of people that purchase pets. And there are other options such as adopting, you know, and I really advocate for adopting instead of shopping because we don't need breeders to breed more animals into this world. And a lot of these breeders, unfortunately, even breed you know like ill animals, sick animals pets, and it's just so bad. And there are many pets in shelters that need our help. So I believe that responsible pet ownership is also part of sustainable journey, you know? So, and I mean, I've been always conscious About sustainability since I remember myself.

[00:09:25] But I guess the last few years we've become more and more aware as the message is out there. And particularly during Covid times, I think we had this awakening that, you know, there has to be a more conscious lifestyle that we have to adopt as well, because that's, that's what's more meaningful to us.

[00:09:44] What about you?

[00:09:45] James Gill: Absolutely. Oh, I don't normally get asked questions on here Claudia. What about me or my lifestyle? Yeah, I agree. I think I, I've tried, well, I, I think there's something, there was a few things there that you said that really stuck with me actually just for a start, which was the progress, not perfection, I think is a really, A really key thing because I think we've found that with our journey with, with ecos send so far in that we almost didn't even pursue the path of EcoSend because we were so worried about what we didn't know.

[00:10:19] And, and I know I've had conversations about other guests on the podcast as well around this of, I think some people are so afraid that they start talking about. The environment and climate or doing things better as an individual or as a business, they're so afraid that they will say the wrong thing or be doing the wrong thing, or that whatever they're doing is not enough or not the, not the best thing to do.

[00:10:45] It can almost shut things down and, and people just don't know where to go and they just carry on as they were before. And I think it's such an important thing for, you know, talk to people a lot about this around just trying to step in the right direction and, and talking about things is a really important part because it's only through those conversations and by taking one, putting one foot in front of the other that change happens and that, that people and businesses become more conscious of all things. And key on this is, is climate. And and I, I think I look at what we've done on that journey and, and just the amount we've learned in such a short space of time, really. And going from having minimal knowledge to now, I don't know, I would not say I expert still, but I think there's just so much comparatively to where we were before.

[00:11:34] And I, I do think now on my personal side too, around That's our same kind of approach. I, I, I really try, you know, with the wayside of things. And I saw this great talk from someone who was, I forget her name, but I maybe we'll can find it for the show notes. But talking about the impact plastics have made on the world and I've become incredibly conscious of how plastics are around us in life.

[00:12:02] I mean, I'm drinking from this water bottle that is actually made from recycled plastic and it's a special type of plastic. And can be recycled again. And I had conscious like, but like I bought this for that mindset. Like when you go to any shop and you wanna buy just a drink, almost everything's in in plastic.

[00:12:20] And when you see that, like as humans, we've invented this amazing material that lasts forever. But we treat it as if it's free. Whereas like in reality, plastic should be treated as something like more valuable than gold. It lasts forever. Like how we treat, how we let plastic seep into our lives like this.

[00:12:39] There's all these things in my life that I've like just over the last sort of year really become more conscious of. But, but I don't wanna talk too much about me, Claudia, because I know there's so much more to learn about you, but I'm happy to chat more if you want offline.

[00:12:53] Cláudia Guerreiro: No, I'm really, I'm really excited that you resonate with the things that I said, and I, I really believe that striving for progress instead of perfection is so important in sustainability, whether it's on the professional or personal side. And by the way, I'm also a customer of EcoSend, I've been a very, very happy customer and I.

[00:13:16] Love what you guys are doing and I'm so thankful that you came to the market this year because I've been looking for a platform that is conscious for the longest time and I was really excited when I found you online.

[00:13:30] James Gill: Oh, that's, that's great to hear Claudia. I mean, yeah, what we're doing, because then, you know, so much of it's about building up knowledge and, and sharing knowledge on, on the carbon footprint of, of all things digital. Not even just what we're doing with the email marketing side, but I think, you know, a lot of us, myself, included this, consider doing stuff on the web. You don't think about the energy being used behind the scenes there and where that energy necessarily is coming from and think ourselves. And a lot of people we talk to, it's like people's eyes are really getting open. The more they, they think about this, it's like actually, yeah, email marketing, digital advertising, video streaming, all of these things that we do.

[00:14:10] You don't see. Clouds of smoke fumes coming from your computer, but you know,

[00:14:16] Cláudia Guerreiro: That's right.

[00:14:17] James Gill: Other places in the world and other regions there's a lot of computers consuming a lot of energy to power the world we know today. And becoming more conscious of that I think is a really important thing for everyone. And, and also through EcoSend, we're building up such a great community of people like yourself who you know, all coming together.

[00:14:40] Not just on digital sustainabilities, but also helping people make all these changes in their lives too. And I think that it kind of takes us on very nicely to one of the topics I know you wanted to talk about, which was marketing being a force for good in the world and, and can, can marketing really be a change for good in the world?

[00:15:00] Can it change the world? Talk to me about this, Claudia.

[00:15:03] Cláudia Guerreiro: Yes. So yes, the question is, can Marketing change the world? So Marketing has the power of change really. So it can be change for bad. For example, leading people to buy products and services that they do not need, and changing for good. So basically bringing positive impact into the world, you know, and I really believe that Marketing can change and become a force for good in the world.

[00:15:33] You know, businesses cannot continue to operate the same way as they have done throughout these years. It is time for a different type of, Business, the purpose-driven business. So businesses that you know come because they want to bring positive change into society, that they really want to contribute something.

[00:15:53] So it's beyond profit obviously. I also understand that people do need money to live. I'm not saying that business shouldn't earn money here, but I'm saying that besides earning money, they should also operate in a way that brings positive impacts to through the planet, you know, for people, animals, and nature itself.

[00:16:17] And so I do believe that Marketing can be a force to you know, help these businesses to succeed, you know, And in a conscious manner. So instead of using growth hacks or marketing tactics and tips and so on that are causing more harm, they, we should change and make it more conscious. So basically what I do is conscious Marketing.

[00:16:45] I believe in building something so fundamentally good that others can't just wait to spread the words and be part of your movement. So that's what conscious Marketing is all about. And I also follow eight principles in my work. And this eight principles are really important for me in every single thing that I do.

[00:17:10] So basically let me tell you about these eight

[00:17:14] James Gill: I would love to hear the, I, I love a good list of principles. I'm getting my notebook out right already, just to try and,

[00:17:22] Cláudia Guerreiro: Wonderful. Yeah, I mean, let's go, let's see if I don't forget any, so, so the first one is from profits driven to purpose driven. The second one is from company centric to customer centric. Then the third one is from price driven to value driven. Then the fourth one is from competitive to collaborative, you know, then from interruption to attraction, from complex to simple.

[00:17:58] The seventies from duplicity to honesty. And finally, the last one, which is my favorite, I've already talked a little bit about it today, from Fear to Love. So these are the eight principles that I follow in my work and that guide everything that I do because I believe that Marketing is the most successful ingredient to building a conscious business.

[00:18:22] James Gill: I see. That's awesome Claudia. I love, I mean, the idea of having principals to start with is is, is great because I think it helps, you know, whenever you're talking to any customer or client or even maybe members of staff, like it helps you align on, on what you really care about, which is great. But then all of those, I think, you know, I'm sure many people listening be like, yeah, that seems pretty, pretty sensible, pretty good.

[00:18:48] I love it. I also love that there's not 10, just because you're trying to make a round number, like you've got eight there. It's good. Short and sweet.

[00:18:53] Cláudia Guerreiro: Yeah. Yes, exactly. I mean, and I really believe in each one of these principles, and I think every Marketer should apply these principles in, in their work. There is just so important. And I believe that they do drive change in the things that we, that we do. I.

[00:19:10] James Gill: I'm intrigued as well because I think a lot of those principles, they sound very sensible and very, almost like I, I find 'em very easy to agree with. Do you ever find there's anyone who maybe disagrees with any of them?

[00:19:24] Cláudia Guerreiro: I think people perhaps don't understand sometimes like how to apply this principles. So in my work I really follow them strictly and I also show practical tips on how to do that. For example, when it comes to the principle from fear to love, I explain people instead of let's say that you have a campaign, a launch, you know, and you want to basically inspire people to be part of it in some manner.

[00:19:54] And instead of instigating this fear of missing out, such as don't miss out, check our website right now, and if you don't check our website now, our prices are gonna increase this and that. So I just try to show them like very visual idea of what that could look like and what could be the difference.

[00:20:12] So for example, instead of saying Don't miss out, why not just saying, join us in this journey or learn more you know, And that is so much more positive than instigating this, like fear of missing out. And also scarcity is is used very frequently in Marketing, particularly fake scarcity.

[00:20:34] So when someone is pretending to have a scarce product or service, and it's actually not, but they're just doing a campaign to get to drive sales as much as possible, and they want to trigger people to make a decision impulsively. And that's just so wrong. You know, I do believe that people need time to make decisions.

[00:20:56] For example, I have a client of mine that has been following me for almost a year, and she has approached me recently, very interested in my work, and it was the right time for her to engage me and engage my services. And, you know organic Marketing does take time and you have to. Be patient, but you will get there.

[00:21:17] You know? So it's a completely different approach, this conscious approaches compared to getting the most at the fastest time and so on. So for me you know, I know that sometimes this principles sound really good, but people just don't know how to apply them. And I do explain them in my work.

[00:21:36] James Gill: I really appreciate you talking about this actually, Claudia, because I can imagine some people listening may be like, yeah, that sounds great, but like, the reason I use scarcity, the reason I use fear of missing out like it's more effective. It, like, it, it gets people to buy today. And I think, I think it comes to something deeper, I guess for many companies and, and maybe individuals to, to think about, which is.

[00:22:03] Around their own values and around the kind of company they're building and, and what their own goals are. And I think, I think we've thought about this a lot with wider, with GoSquared having been around a long time and with what we're doing with EcoSend. Like if you, if you intend to start a shop and sell all your stock within the first week and close down a week later, then you're probably gonna have a very different attitude to maybe looking at building a business that you wanna be running for many years to come and and like yourself there with your, your client. That could be, you know, coming on board after following your journey and your content for a year, like, They were trade offs, like, okay, maybe it would be nicer to win that client a year ago, but would you win that client at all if you didn't have the approach that you're having?

[00:22:49] And how would you feel like, would you be happy running a business that took any client and sold whatever goods they had at the highest price as quick as possible? Would that be the life you wanna lead? And it's like all this combination of factors that go, I think even deeper than. Marketing tactics to that, that, you know, make up the world around us.

[00:23:09] And I'm, I, I think the, the positive thing as well, I think that we probably both see is that there's more and more people and businesses thinking like this and and wanting to be a more conscious and more caring business. And there is not growth and profit at all costs. And there's actually other factors involved.

[00:23:30] Cláudia Guerreiro: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's time to really lose this profits at all costs for sure. And you know, it has such an impact on people's health as well to take this fear of missing out approach. I mean I think there are so many studies out there that show that our society is deeply depressed, you know, which is connected so much with the fact that we are exposed to ads, to commercials, to, you know, everything that really tells us that we are just not good enough; to buy something.

[00:24:02] And so, I mean, to me, I do not want to have such impact on people, on the planet, on animals, and so on. And I would definitely rather follow this purpose-driven approach, this that really prioritizes. People, the planets and animals above anything else. So it's not really about making profits at any costs.

[00:24:23] James Gill: Mm. Absolutely. There's a vision of the future you have, Claudia, that over the next sort of five, 10 years... I always like to talk to people about the, the future of, of where we're going. And, and it sounds like you already have a pretty good idea of where you would like the world to be right now.

[00:24:41] Like over the next, you know, it, the world's changing quickly, but I sound like an old man saying that, but I mean with, but what AI and everything has been a very. I mean, with marketing I, I do struggle because as you know, there are like updates every single day, every single hour, and it is very difficult for us to be on top of everything for sure. But I believe that the way of the future in five, 10 years would really be that businesses will prioritise.

[00:25:15] Cláudia Guerreiro: You know, impact above all. So at least I hope, and Marketing as well, Marketing will become more impactful. And I hope that we can all agree at some point what is impactful Marketing because Marketers have different visions of what is exactly impact marketing as compared to others. I mean, to me, I've just talked about my values and so on.

[00:25:39] And I also believe in organic marketing because I don't believe paid advertisement has brought much good to the world either. But, you know, this is obviously controversial and that's my view of Marketing. But I really believe that we will make Marketing. More inclusive and that society will become better in the future.

[00:25:59] I also hope that businesses will partner with NGOs to make like the business world a better place instead of operating completely separate as we have been operating. I feel that it'll be a merge between NGOs and businesses in the future, and that will definitely bring a lot of change towards a more positive society, hopefully.

[00:26:23] James Gill: That's a really interesting one to just dig a little deeper on that, I really like that because it just, it resonates quite a lot with, with a lot of thoughts I've had lately of what we're doing with EcoSend and, and things and, and yeah, this idea, I think that's kind of embedded in a lot of business and a lot of people these days that that has been embedded really since the all the time of like, you've got businesses that make profit and do business, and then you've got charities that do the good stuff and like ne never the two shall meet.

[00:26:56] And in reality, I look at the opportunity of where those two can meet and where businesses, you know, businesses have often got so many things optimized within them to be highly effective with smart people, with driven, career driven people, with professionals that are maybe at the top of their game doing very scientific and highly technical things.

[00:27:23] Especially when I think about tech businesses. But like, What if they do a little bit for good? What if they start shifting a little bit of their mindset to good? And then what, what about for, for charities of like where they can partner with, with those businesses and they're doing so much good, but like, and they've got so many people that are just dedicated to great causes, but like there's this, this sacrifice in terms of their own, maybe their own skillsets or technologies or, or you know, the funding they have and.

[00:27:57] You know where those two can meet. Like there's a lot of things to figure out, but I think I just see so much opportunity for a greater opportunity for making the world better.

[00:28:09] Cláudia Guerreiro: Social entrepreneurship will not be enough. I think it really will have to be. A combination between work done by NGOs and charities and so on and those businesses and going hand in hand together, and I think that would really be the future of the business world, at least in the positive business world that I hope that we will have in 10 years, let's say.

[00:28:35] James Gill: Well, someone's gotta be thinking about it. Haven't Claudia. If if you are the voice of, of good business in five to 10 years, then somebody will gone, right? I think. Yeah. That's amazing. So I, I feel like we, we are nearly, I mean, this time is flying by Claudia. I always love to talk to our, our guests about any advice they have.

[00:28:54] I know you've got a very helpful resource, a newsletter that you that you put out every week, which we can get to in a sec. But like, advice for others. I would love to just see, you know, any advice you've been given or any advice you have. Very keen to hear it. I mean, you've already given, by the way, at least eight points of fantastic advice, so anything more you can give is just a bonus.

[00:29:15] Cláudia Guerreiro: Thank you so much. I would absolutely love to give some extra advice for someone who is just starting their impact journey. I think first of all, it's fine to be nervous because, you know, it's still a world that has a lot of unknowns, you know, and it's fine to feel that you don't know enough or that you need to learn more about this, because again, like I said, nobody's perfect.

[00:29:44] We strive for progress instead of perfection. And so just start. Slowly and steady and consistently, and you will get there. So see yourself as a maker. So you do things every day, you make things happen, and when you make things happen every day, you will start to benefit others. You know, that's when you start to make an impact, when our lives become meaningful and fulfilling.

[00:30:14] So yes, just find what feels right. For you, you know, and start your impact journey. Don't wait to be perfect. Just aim for, just strive for progress.

[00:30:28] James Gill: Well, those are great words to live by, Claudia. Thank you so much. And I guess in, in the theme of, of progress, one step people can take is to learn more about you, Claudia. And you have a, I know because you've interviewed me on it, a lovely newsletter that you do every week. It would be great to hear a bit more about that and then tell our listeners about the, the newsletter you do that

[00:30:48] Cláudia Guerreiro: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:30:49] James Gill: Good place to go.

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:51] Cláudia Guerreiro: Thank you so much. Absolutely. I'm so excited to talk about my journey when it comes to my newsletter, my LinkedIn, so actually the, this newsletter has started in January, 2023, so very recently, but I already have. 5,000 subscribers. I'm so happy that so many people really feel that there is a possibility for marketing to change and become a force for good in the world.

[00:31:16] So the newsletter is called Conscious Marketing Insights, and I sent it out every Wednesday. And it's all about bringing actionable tips that help everyone to deliver experiences that matter, you know, So this is the theme of this newsletter that I send out every Wednesday. And I also interview leaders like James, you know that that have purpose driven businesses or work for purpose driven businesses because I think it's so important for everyone to not feel that they are alone in their impact journey, in their journey of creating a purpose-driven businesses.

[00:31:59] And we can all learn from each other so much. I believe that this podcast is also a great source of learning. You know, listening to someone else's story can also inspire us in some way. And so I do the same on my newsletter. I interview people about, Conscious Marketing and basically inspire others to change the way that they are, they are doing Marketing.

[00:32:26] So, yeah, so I really love doing this newsletter and also it's on LinkedIn, so it's very easy for anyone to access and subscribe. You can just find me on LinkedIn and you will see my newsletter right away. The Conscious Marketing Insights, since we are talking about LinkedIn, I actually started more seriously my LinkedIn journey last year, so 2022, and I had only about 1000 followers when I first started in.

[00:32:54] Right now it's May, 2023. I have almost, no, I have more than 14,000 followers, so it's been a really great. Journey that I'm so excited about and I'm so grateful to everyone who has been following me since the beginning or have just followed me recently, and really wants to change the way that Marketing is done and believes in conscious Marketing.

[00:33:19] James Gill: Amazing. Claudia, I can't think of a more perfect guess for you to be on the EcoSend podcast talking about climate being conscious about Marketing, Marketing tips, growth of your audience, all of these things that, that perfect overlap in the Venn diagram of what our listeners and customers care about and want to learn more about.

[00:33:41] So I feel like we could do a whole other show about how you've grown your audience, and all of your tips. But then I might be giving, we might be giving away too many of your secrets. So Thank you so much Claudia. We'll, we'll make sure your website and your LinkedIn LinkedIn, the show notes and thank you so much for joining me on the show.

[00:33:59] It is been an absolute pleasure.

[00:34:02] Cláudia Guerreiro: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful. And of course I will continue to support EcoSend I'm one of the customers. So thank you so much once again. And yes, I'll keep following your journey.

[00:34:15] James Gill: Thank you so much Claudia, and thank you everyone for listening. If you've been joined this episode, please, please do tell other people about it. We love it when new people start listening to the show. Every single review and recommendation we get means the world to us. So thank you for listening and we'll catch you again very soon.

[00:34:32] Cheers.

[00:34:33] Cláudia Guerreiro: Thank you. Bye.


Creators and Guests

Cláudia Guerreiro
Cláudia Guerreiro
Cláudia is a digital marketing freelancer on a mission to help purpose-driven entrepreneurs succeed with their marketing efforts in an ethical and responsible way.
S2 #7 'Marketing - the key ingredient to building a conscious business', with Claudia Guerreiro.
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