The EcoSend Podcast

S4E10 audio
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[00:00:00] James Gill: Welcome to the EcoSend podcast stories from marketers, founders, and change

[00:00:06] Ryan Laird: makers,

[00:00:07] James Gill: leading businesses for a better

[00:00:09] Ryan Laird: world.

[00:00:27] James Gill: Hi there. Welcome to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. It's great to be back with another show. We're really right at the end now of series for I believe of the UKESET podcast. So thrilled to be, um, presenting you, uh, one of the last episodes of this series. And, uh, and I think we've got a good one today.

[00:00:48] We've got a really good one. Uh, I'm speaking with Ryan Laird today. And Ryan is the founder and director of Green Orbit Digital. Uh, that is a pioneering sustainability focused digital marketing consultancy, uh, with a passion for space and digital innovation. Ryan leads efforts to empower businesses in adopting eco conscious marketing strategies for a greener future.

[00:01:12] Now, this is what Ryan's up to. And I believe today's episode may venture on the topic of space. So I'm very excited about this. Ryan, welcome to the show. How are you doing today? Hi, there. Good. Good. Thank you. Awesome. Awesome. Really, really looking forward to chatting with you. on many, many great topics today.

[00:01:31] Um, so Ryan, maybe in your own words, tell us a bit about yourself. Uh, what, what are you up to? What are you doing?

[00:01:38] Ryan Laird: Yes. So, um, so I've always since, uh, yeah, knee high over grasshopper, interested in, uh, space. Uh, so from the early days of venturing out in my backyard, um, telescope, um, looking at the stars and, um, and yeah, just fascinated there.

[00:01:55] And I've always, I guess, been curious about nature and the environment, just, um, Yeah, we're relating to that. And, um, but yeah, so I pursued a degree in physics. And so I'm very, uh, perhaps geeky in that sense of, um, you know, going, going down the route there, but I've always had this passion as well to communicate, uh, about space and science.

[00:02:19] And so, uh, but that's kind of eventually led me in towards, uh, science communication and marketing and, uh, yeah, so much of what I'm, I'm sure I'll talk to you about today. Okay. Thank you.

[00:02:30] James Gill: I see. Right, right, right. That sounds, that sounds great. So I guess, um, I'm, I'm, I'm very curious. So, um, I think a lot of us as children were fascinated by the stars and the planets and the sky and what's out there.

[00:02:45] So how, how did you end up both being interested in that, but also, uh, the climate piece as well and sustainability? Because I guess they're not necessarily Absolutely. Two things that people often think about in the same sentence, perhaps.

[00:03:00] Ryan Laird: Um, maybe, maybe not. Um, but when I was young, I remember many star nights at our local nature reserve.

[00:03:10] And I would often go there, of course, just as the sun would set. Uh, and you see nature, everything's sort of quiet and then there's sort of nature reserves and, uh, and of course made for a perfect area for stargazing. So, um, and that's, that's really where it all began for me. And, um, and I guess sort of as I've kind of gone through and my studies into science, I've learned more about.

[00:03:38] Um, our impact on, uh, the environment and, and, of course, space and, uh, in particular space data plays a huge role in that, in, uh, informing us about all of, uh, the changes, uh, to our planet. Sure,

[00:03:52] James Gill: sure. I see, I see, yeah, so actually, thinking about it, there's actually quite a lot of ways that space and what's going up there in the sky relates to what's happening down here on the ground.

[00:04:05] Exactly. Yeah, okay, I, I see. So, You've got a you I believe you also you've got a sort of a certificate in some sort of green digital skills thing that would be I'm intrigued to know more about this. I know you mentioned it.

[00:04:22] Ryan Laird: Sure. Sure. So so I mean, my my career sort of took me on perhaps a strange sort of path from academia into science communication and yeah, and then into into marketing.

[00:04:34] So there's been a a huge sort of rise in the number of private ventures in the space industry. Um, so I've gone the route of, uh, B2B marketing and, uh, and then last year, in fact, I, uh, I actually, uh, enrolled in the IncoAcademy's Green Digital Skills Certificate, and, um, I never really considered the impact of, um, our, like our digital.

[00:05:05] the digital footprint really on, uh, like by sending emails or by, um, um, hosting websites, um, the, the sheer amount of data there. And it, and all of this kind of got me thinking about sustainability more broadly. Um, in the context as well of the space industry and a huge variety of sort of digital technologies we use and the earth observation data that we, we gather.

[00:05:31] So, um, so yeah, that was really, uh, yeah,

[00:05:34] James Gill: yeah, yeah. Well, it's, it's such a, there's a big Venn diagram of lots of overlapping interests here that all, uh, all are worth diving into. Um, yeah. Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about sort of, I guess, from satellite data, the sheer amounts of information that must be collected there and the consequences of that.

[00:05:54] Yeah, um, I know that something you wanted to talk about was this sort of concept. Well, to be honest, actually, it's the first time I've heard of it. Sustainability. So Ryan, what is this? What tell

[00:06:09] Ryan Laird: us all? Yeah. Well, it's, um, to be honest, it means, uh, different things to different people, even perhaps in the same industry.

[00:06:18] So, um, so I've, I've been, uh, looking at this as I've been building up my marketing consultancy and, and really, Space sustainability, uh, namely people think of is, um, uh, like space debris and the issues, um, surrounding that. So, uh, we've in the last sort of, um, five years or so, we've been seeing such a surge in the number of satellites being launched.

[00:06:46] Right. So, um, and there's, um, there's an orbit we call a low earth orbit, um, where, um, it's, um, It's where a lot of these, uh, services, uh, that operate from, like, that are perhaps informing us as well of aspects into climate change or telecommunication or different services there, but, but there is a growing problem.

[00:07:12] So the industry is looking at this, uh, through different, um, um, What we call inner orbit services and to perhaps refuel satellites because some were never designed to kind of necessarily come try and come back down at the end of their life. Um, but now there's a real mechanisms now that have been put in place to try and sort of, um, always plan for that eventual sort of end of life of, of missions, or even repairing the satellites, um, while they're in orbit.

[00:07:45] And so to prolong the life. So, um, so really the space debris issue is, uh, a real growing problem. But it's, but we, and we're increasingly relying, of course, on, um, on satellite for, um, our daily services. I mean, even like banks and, um, they, they, they're using this with timing and navigation. So it's, uh, so that's, that's really what, what most people would consider space sustainability, but then there's the whole, Other side of things, which is almost a two pronged approach that I see, two sides of the same coin, really.

[00:08:24] And, um, and that's perhaps more the traditional sort of environmental monitoring, uh, which, which, uh, which is all of, uh, yeah, the space based data itself. So, so we, we, we, we tend to separate this into, um, upstream and downstream. So, um, upstream is the build and the satellite. It's in all of the hardware, and then downstream is all of the data and the services that you get from that.

[00:08:51] Oh, okay. Yeah. So, um, so, so, uh, what we've had is, um, for a long time, of course, we've been monitoring, uh, the planet through all of the, this different space data. So, um, yeah, and sustainability and sustainable development goals really, uh, strongly tie into all of that. Yeah. Yeah. But then, uh, this term space sustainability, it, um, it is arguably being used more to describe, uh, in orbit, really.

[00:09:21] So, uh, but I, I like to try and see it as the, as a, as a big picture of it being all interlinked. Uh, so, uh, Looking at the entire lifespan of, say, a satellite from the build and launch all the way through to being in orbit and the end of life and what all that means for the planet and for, yeah, our impact, so.

[00:09:49] James Gill: Yeah, this is, um, I mean there's a lot to unpack here. I have to admit, because this is not a world I am used to talking about, Ryan. So, um, I mean, I, I think I vaguely heard something about this before, but there's sort of this, um, issue with, uh, the, uh, I guess the orbit. Uh, was it the orbit debris? And, and, so we're, we're launching satellites up into the sky and then they're orbiting around, but if they get damaged or if there are any breakages, anything up there, it just stays up there.

[00:10:25] Is that the issue? And it's always going round

[00:10:28] Ryan Laird: and I mean, technically, it depends on where it is in the orbit, etc, but yes, so, so what happens, it's, it's, you can think of it a bit like a domino effect, so, you have satellites up there, and, you know, even if, say, I mean, not to say it's a common occurrence, but things do happen where there's, say, say there's like a screw loose or some kind of small fragment or whatever happens.

[00:10:55] Uh, I mean, they build satellites very sturdily, but still, um, maybe the odd thing sort of happens. But, but these, uh, small objects are traveling. some of them faster than bullets. So it's really, and, and, um, and every, every day the, uh, like the international space station is, uh, having to, uh, do like maneuvers to kind of, uh, dodge these effectively.

[00:11:19] Um, right. So there's, uh, There's so many different, like, models of, um, sort of trying to monitor all of this, but, but there are limitations, of course, and always with, you know, with the technology we have, although we're getting better at monitoring it, it's still, you know, An issue which we need to, to resolve.

[00:11:41] So, so that's, that's a huge area now that the industry's talking about, um, because it's kind of become a victim of its own success in many ways in that regard. Um, but, but I, I, the way I like to sort of see things is, uh, as a bigger picture. Um, so, um, all of this, um, I mean, there are, there are huge benefits, of course, that, um, Space data provide and by monitoring our planet, but we also should do that all responsibly So yeah, it's so that is that is a challenge, you know, we're still yeah, we're still basically launching off on the top of the of bombs, effectively.

[00:12:25] I mean, the technologies there is still what they were doing in the 60s, you know, except now we've got ways of reusing rockets, um, and landing rockets. You never would have thought in those days to land rockets, but it's kind of a no brainer in the world of like, well, why would you spend? You know, millions, uh, building a rocket and for it not to come back and reuse it, it, it's, but this is part

[00:12:54] James Gill: of, um, It's a very expensive firework, yeah,

[00:12:56] Ryan Laird: yeah.

[00:12:57] Well, well, yeah, and, so, so, there are new, sort of, technologies, new ways of, of doing things, and, you know, I guess, um, You know, as, as time goes on, we'll, uh, we'll probably look back and think, why on earth we were doing things like that? You know, it's so much waste. Um, I mean, we're still like, there's still launches that do, um, uh, have all the various stages that do sort of fall off into the ocean and, um, you know, so much is collected, but a lot of things aren't.

[00:13:29] So it's, and this is, uh, the, the impacts there. So it's. It's trying to think now more broadly, I think, in terms of space sustainability, what that means for the sector. And, uh, yeah, like everyone now has to think about their impact, like increasingly.

[00:13:50] James Gill: Absolutely. I, I can't stop thinking about, uh, the debris up there flying around at the speed of bullets.

[00:13:57] I feel like we, people would litter a lot less if our litter flew around at that speed on, uh, on the ground. Um, yeah. Sure. My goodness, yeah, uh, I, I guess, I mean, gosh, there's so many, uh, further areas to explore here. I mean, one, one, I guess, before we go into more of the space data and how that can impact climate, which I do want to dig into more, the, the, this, the litter up in space, is there anything We can do about that like it now that we are we are making this own It's making this problem for ourselves.

[00:14:35] I guess in some ways. Is there anything we can do other than just dodge it?

[00:14:40] Ryan Laird: It is a challenge. There's a lot of it now up there and we've been launching ever since Sputnik in 1957 but now we say in the last sort of Five ten years. It's been unprecedented the number of launches Yeah But, um, but no, there are companies out there who are, uh, like proposing solutions and testing.

[00:15:02] I mean, there's a lot that's been tested in, in demo and, um, and certain services have been rolled out to, to do this, but there's a whole legal issue as well. It's kind of, if you think of like maritime law, it's, it's, it's kind of space with sort of looking at how do we resolve, um, Issues like, because I mean you have, I mean, say that you, um, so that you do your, you have your domestic waste, right?

[00:15:34] And you have, uh, so I, I live in a flat and there's other people here. I put all that say into our communal rubbish area. Yeah. You won't know whose is whose and then, then obviously someone collects that, like the council collects that, takes that to the local recycling and sorts it. But you don't know. Yes.

[00:15:53] stuff that is. And what we're basically doing is, um, you know, we, well, some cases you can model and see where things, where certain bits of debris have come from, but it's very hard.

[00:16:14] There's been some instances where they've, they've traced that, but it's, um, but this is a whole legal issue, like, who's responsible, and, um, I mean, there are, like, all the framework, all the treaties that we had, um, from the, the Apollo eras, like the Alphabase treaties, they were all involving, uh, Transcribed Like governments and like basically member states of the United Nations and not really considering all of like the private companies that are now coming along to um, To kind of uh, launching satellites that are going, venturing further to the moon and that's a whole other area as well that could raise some legal issues.

[00:16:53] So it's, we're entering it's, It's a bit of the Wild West. Uh, you're, we're sort of navigating this, this, I mean, there's this whole debate, of course, with artificial intelligence, it's, it's kind of similar in that way, where there's, there's not really a legal precedent, so we're all kind of Like, the industry's moving forward, but it's, uh, but it's, it's like, on the one hand, um, there's guidance there, but people can go always a lot somewhere else, or, and, you know, so people, some places may not be as competitive, and it's, it's all Sure.

[00:17:32] So there's a lot of legal issues, um, but, but ultimately, yeah, the, the technologies that are being proposed, I mean, there's, there's ways to kind of refuel satellites to kind of extend their life, or there's, um, Maybe some, um, ways of kind of getting a hold and gripping satellites and, and different manners.

[00:17:55] I mean, even nets have been proposed and all manners of things. Yeah. But, um, but a lot of that, um, has been untested. But, but there's, there's theories, there's demos and it's, but it's still, uh, a new area. Like they've been, you know, with some mixed successes, but yeah, it's, um, it is challenging. So

[00:18:17] James Gill: yeah, there are no, uh, no perfect answers here.

[00:18:21] I'm not going to hold you to giving them all to me. No, um, I, I, yeah, gosh, there's, there's, uh, we could talk all day about, uh, the debris problem in itself, but I feel like maybe something that is perhaps, uh, on the more. optimistic or uplifting side that the benefit there's tremendous benefits though from what we are doing with our satellites and with the amount of data we can capture from them so maybe it'd be great to hear more about this Ryan because it's honestly like you know I still, I know there's a few areas where we've benefited from some satellite technology to understand, uh, for instance, where programs where trees are being planted and things like that, where, um, you can understand the location, the impact of deforestation and, um, I've seen some benefits there.

[00:19:16] But I guess there's so much more in terms of how we understand the world that Yeah, I mean, how

[00:19:22] Ryan Laird: long do you have? You can sum it all

[00:19:25] James Gill: up in about three minutes.

[00:19:28] Ryan Laird: Well, yes, so there are various applications of space data. So, um, I mean, one of the examples are probably, uh, better focusing on is you, we have the Copernicus, uh, program, which, um, centers on earth observation.

[00:19:46] There's, there's various services, um, such as atmosphere monitoring, climate change monitoring, and there's, uh, land monitoring. So that's where you're the, like the forest would come in and marine service. So, um, there's so much, uh, there that. Uh, there's there's all these different services as part of that particular program and uh, and then yeah, so you've And that goes into it's their own different domains, like, you know, you've got, so, uh, take an example of a forest there and I mean, for instance, the, um, logging in, um, in Brazil and the way that say, uh, like in the Amazon rainforest, people are legally cutting down, uh, trees, you're able now to see Uh, capture and see all of that from space.

[00:20:37] And in fact, I believe there have been people that have been prosecuted in this way as well to, yeah, gaining this kind of evidence. Um, so you see, you know, you see the, the changes from, um, the time series of the satellites. So you, uh, passing in and we're seeing, uh, I mean, with a lot of conflicts, of course, uh, sadly at the moment is we're seeing, uh, the dramatic changes there as well.

[00:21:04] Um, and, uh, and all of the, um, uh, the major kind of events like forest fires, um, we've had, um, a record number of forest fires, um, recent years and, uh, and, and all of that we're able to, to monitor and, um, and really, uh, Providing that information to hopefully send the, um, the right aid in the right place and know, you know, exactly where, where to go.

[00:21:32] So, so there are, so there are immense benefits across like the entire planet and of in different ways there. So,

[00:21:42] James Gill: yeah, that's, that's fascinating to hear. I, I, um, I'm curious, um, with the satellite data, how, Are there various factors in terms of like, whether you have coverage across the whole world and also how quickly you can access that information?

[00:22:00] Like, in my head I'm thinking, you know, satellite data has some sort of delay, but I, I, I never really know how, how these things factor in. It's like, if you look on Google Maps, you'll see land, and it might be from last summer or whatever. But like, I guess certain businesses can access data. A lot quicker than that, but I'm curious what plays into all of these, these factors.

[00:22:26] Yeah,

[00:22:27] Ryan Laird: so there was a time where, um, I mean, think of even like your mobile phones, where you have a brick phone, you'd, you'd have, uh, satellites the size of buses, uh, double decker buses. Now we're able to, um, because they're much smaller, so we're able to launch more of them, but, um, they're a lot smaller. So.

[00:22:47] even the size of a mobile phone. Um, I mean, they have done, um, demonstrations where obviously the modified bits of the mobile phone to make it sort of space safe, you know, with the environment, but, um, but no, there, there are satellites as big as a 10 by 10 by 10 centimeters. We call Um, or, uh, up there, but, um, but we, we tend to rely more now on, uh, networks of satellites, which we call constellations.

[00:23:19] Okay. And, um, so they're all kind of interlinked and, uh, and cause really, yes, that you'd, you'd be lucky, say, um, 30 years ago, if you'd get an image back from a satellite within say, you know, a day or so, I mean, it would take, um, you know, a day or so. Obviously, say you're relying on one satellite and passing over orbit, it's, it's, obviously there's that kind of, uh, factor, um, but now we, we have, uh, much like we do with GPS, we have, um, Satellites out there that are, there's enough of them to kind of capture the information all together all at once and network that and share that and so, so it's, um, we're really now, um, spoiled in many senses with regards to data, like it's, um, And then there's a lot of free data as well.

[00:24:15] So it's not all commercial. Sure. So Copernicus, for instance, is, uh, the program, uh, by the European Union, which now we've negotiated to be part of again. Um, um, you know, so, uh, and then, yeah, you have, of course, a lot of the commercial, uh, ventures. So you've got, like, Maxwell Technologies, Planet, um, There's, yeah, so they're two of the big ones, which are informing us all the time of the sort of changes on our planet and, and yeah, monitoring aspects like climate change as well.

[00:24:53] And

[00:24:56] James Gill: so, yeah, so I, I had no idea that I mean, I had no idea how much was going on up there in the sky, uh, and everything just seems to work beautifully. So yeah, I think twice before complaining about, um, not having my exact location on my iPhone next time. Yeah. So you were saying as well, then there's a big, There's, uh, another consideration here that's climate related, which is the, the digital climate, uh, or the digital carbon footprint sort of side of things of, um, the amount of data that is being generated, I guess, by these, these satellites.

[00:25:35] Yeah.

[00:25:35] Ryan Laird: And I mean, I, I think this hasn't really as, as far as I've seen been explored by the industry and, um, and it's, and it's, uh, Yeah. Something, which I've considered, as I say, as as a part of the inco, uh, uh, digital skills, uh, green Skills Academy. Yeah. And, uh, and, and just understanding as well, like of course Eco Send.

[00:25:57] I mean, you, you have an, um, email platform there and Yeah. You know, um, that is, is more eco-friendly planting trees and, and, and, uh, support there. So yeah, it's, um, so yeah, with. Uh, with, with all of this sort of in mind, um, I mean we, we have, uh, terabytes of data, um, like per day that's coming from, uh, wow.

[00:26:22] These satellites, these, um, so the Copernicus program, I think it was 16 terabytes per day of, of data. So it's, it's immense.

[00:26:31] James Gill: And of course, given most people don't have. Um, a terabyte of storage on their local computer. If they're lucky, they might have 250 gigabytes and that's every single day.

[00:26:42] Ryan Laird: And, um, and all of that data, of course, is really, uh, helping inform us about our planet and mitigating, uh, climate change.

[00:26:53] Um, but it got me thinking about, um, Like how all the data's sort of being stored, um, where it's being stored. Um, and, and really this side of it where, um, perhaps, you know, it's, we're also contributing to a problem we're also trying to solve. And, um, and this is where it could be a, a double-edged, uh, sword there.

[00:27:18] Um, I mean, I like, you know, I, I'd be the first to advocate, of course, for. Informing, uh, planets and, uh, Yeah, and all of this, but, but yeah, I, Yeah, I say I'm not an expert on, uh, the, Like, the sorts of servers that they have, etc. But, uh, But it's something, I think, We, we all need to be conscious of is, uh, Digital, uh, Carbon footprint and, uh, you know, in terms of like how much data we're sending across the internet and, and how that impacts and, um, yeah, storing data, but, um, but yeah, I, until last year, I wasn't really aware of any of that.

[00:27:58] Um, so yeah, yeah,

[00:28:01] James Gill: no, it's, it's a hugely, um, on under sort of reported on area of, of, of when people talk about climate and carbon footprint, they, you know, You know, it's so easy to ignore that because you can, all you need is a laptop, all you look at is a screen, you don't see the, the, the cloud, the, uh, nice soft and harmless cloud that, uh, that is behind everything, that is actually That's it.

[00:28:31] Bye. A giant, probably multi building data center that requires as much energy as a small city to power. And, uh, yeah, it's, uh, you know, still to this day, like most of the people we talk to, uh, quite new to this concept. And, uh, I feel like it's only going to grow in, in people's minds and how aware people are.

[00:28:54] And yeah, when you hear about this quantity of data and the amount of data we all. Uh, depending on for, for pushing things forward. I agree as well though, it is absolutely, um, thinking about the, the pros and cons of the services that we have. Like, uh, I guess there's a big debate as well around, uh, and you mentioned earlier AI and how AI could, there are aspects of AI that could be helping us solve various climate, climate issues, but, but also there's huge computing resources that are required for providing the technology to, to run these, um, models and everything.

[00:29:38] So you say, yeah, it's, um, an extremely interesting time to be trying to figure out the right path forward with all of this technology from a climate perspective, I think. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Uh, Ryan, I'm conscious we don't have much time left, but I did, I did really want to just touch on some of your, some of your final, uh, thoughts.

[00:30:01] And I know you had some thoughts on the future. I know you also wanted to share some advice, so. Maybe I could leave it to you to decide how you want to go through some of that because there's so much more we could talk about.

[00:30:15] Ryan Laird: Yeah. Um, well, I guess, yeah, in terms of, yeah, the future, um, well, you know, I don't have a crystal ball, but I know that, um, I know already there's a lot of work in the sector going into what we call a digital twin of the earth.

[00:30:33] And so there'll be various kind of, you know, Types of digital twins, like digital twin of the ocean, digital twin of the atmosphere and land, and all of this really will help us, um, monitor, visualize the, like, our planet, like past, present and future, and, um, yeah, utilizing, um, AI, utilizing, um, measurements that we have from, from satellites, so, so this is already a big project that's been worked on, um, and, uh, yeah, so that's, that's That's what I see would be potentially revolutionary and to, to help us kind of understand really the intricacies of our planet and, uh, forecasting, understanding, yeah, say the past, present and future.

[00:31:23] And, uh, Amazing. Yeah. Um, on the advice , you, you wanted, um, well, yeah,

[00:31:31] James Gill: no, no, I think it's, it is really interesting hearing your thoughts on the, the future there. Right. I, I think, uh, yeah, a digital twin. I'm not sure if I want a digital twin of myself, but the planet as a whole, I think I could be very interesting.

[00:31:43] Yeah. . Yeah. No, it enables, I'm sure that could enable so much o off the back of it. I, I, that's. Super interesting. Um, but then, yeah, I get, I think, uh, hearing any, any advice you've received, right, there's always an interesting thing we like to ask, uh, our guests on the show, because there's always something people have learned that.

[00:32:06] Can be helpful to pass on and you've clearly, yeah, you've got such an interesting mix of all these different areas that are just fascinating. So I'm keen to hear anything you might want

[00:32:16] Ryan Laird: to share. No, I just, I just think really, like, particularly regarding sustainability, it's just to prioritize authenticity, really, and everything that you do.

[00:32:27] And, um, you know, being transparent and open. Um, and that applies, you know, across sort of business. even relationships and personal growth, you know, staying true to yourself and your values. And, um, and yeah, so, so, yeah, I think, you know, nothing more to me than, yeah, the planet, I think is, uh, really supporting, uh, climate change.

[00:32:54] Okay,

[00:32:55] James Gill: absolutely, Ryan. I think that's a really wonderful note to finish on. Actually, I think that I couldn't agree more. Um, so thank you for sharing that. That's I'm sure a lot to be nodding in agreement with that as well. So thank you. I, uh, I also I don't want to finish before just saying there are a few great places where people can go to learn more about What you're up to Ryan and about Green Orbits Digital, right?

[00:33:21] So you have a podcast yourself, I believe, which

[00:33:24] Ryan Laird: Yeah, we're launching soon. So we have a website. So that's sustainable space podcast. com. And so, so yeah, we'll be releasing some episodes soon. Um, um, and yeah, so.

[00:33:40] James Gill: That sounds great. I, I will be sure to give that a follow on, on my podcast player of choice. And, uh, and I love the name.

[00:33:49] It sounds great. I think that'll be up the streets of a lot of people listening to this. So, uh, that sounds great, Ryan. And, and of course, if you want to find, uh, Green Orbit Digital, there's the website, greenorbit. space. And, uh, I did not know dot space was a, was a TLD. So that's great. I've learned another thing today.

[00:34:10] So, uh, yeah, thank you. We'll, we'll have all those links in the show notes. So if anyone wants to check any of those out and learn more about sustainability space, Ryan, Digital marketing all sorts then, uh head there. Okay, ryan. Thank you so much It's been an absolute pleasure and I am i'm fascinated I'm, not going to look up at the sky and think the same things ever again.

[00:34:32] So, uh Uh, thank you ryan. Thank you. Thank you everybody for uh for listening and tuning in. I really hope you have enjoyed today's show Uh As much as I have enjoyed, uh, talking to Ryan. So, um, thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed it, please let us know. Please, of course, tell your friends about it. And, uh, we will catch you next time.

[00:34:53] Thanks.