The EcoSend Podcast

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[00:00:00] Godefroy Harito: Welcome to the EcoSend podcast.

[00:00:02] James Gill: Stories from marketers, founders, and change makers. leading businesses for a

[00:00:08] Godefroy Harito: better world.

[00:00:27] James Gill: Hi, welcome to another episode of the Ecosend podcast. I'm thrilled to be back with another episode. And for those of you maybe listening for the first time or watching for the first time, the Ecosend podcast is a conversation with me, James, co founder of Ecosend with other people who are putting the planet first in their businesses and doing.

[00:00:48] Amazing things to put other things other than profit, uh, at the top of their agenda while they're building a business. Um, this week I am thrilled to be joined with Godfrey, uh, Godfrey Harito of TreeApp. Uh, Godfrey is someone I've known about for a while, and at TreeApp, TreeApp, we actually use TreeApp at Ecoset, so I'm thrilled to have Godfrey with me.

[00:01:09] Uh, Godfrey is the co founder of TreeApp, and, uh, For those of you wondering, what is TreeApp? TreeApp is a global tree planting organization and it enables individuals and organizations to plant trees globally. Having planted over 4 million trees, that's a lot of trees, the organization works with the likes of The Economist, L'Oreal and DPD Delivery Group to plant trees.

[00:01:33] Uh, so I think there's gonna be a lot we can chat through here, uh, Godfrey, uh, on the subject of planting trees. How, why, where, when, all of these questions. Uh, but first of all, hi Godfrey, how are you doing today? You doing well? I'm very

[00:01:48] Godefroy Harito: good. I'm very good, James. Thanks for welcoming me today. Um, how about yourself?

[00:01:53] James Gill: Yes, I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. I, uh, Yeah, I, I'm keeping well. I am trying to stay good while I've got a cold, uh, but I'm, I'm doing okay. Yeah. I'm all the better for chatting with you. Um, in terms of, uh, your journey, Godfrey, and what you're up to today, so you're the co founder. How, how does this come about?

[00:02:15] How have you got to this point? Um, did you wake up one day and just decide to run Treap or, uh, where did the idea start? How did you get into this?

[00:02:25] Godefroy Harito: Yeah, so, uh, maybe to give a bit of context on all of that. So, as my name gives it very clearly, I'm half French, uh, but also half Greek. Uh, so the first name, Goodfroy, and last name, Charitos.

[00:02:36] Translate it together, brings it Godfrey Harito. So, you

[00:02:39] James Gill: said that so much better than me, by the way. But,

[00:02:43] Godefroy Harito: but everything is fine. There's a lot of different versions. Um, so to give a bit of context, I grew up in Athens in Greece. Um, one of the countries in Europe where every, uh, summer, um, you have a lot of wildfires and a lot like you have in Spain or in Italy and wildfires are not something uncommon.

[00:03:04] Um, And growing up in that country means that I was, you know, seeing and experiencing these wildfires at first hand, you know, happening in front of me, um, actually to the point where in, uh, I believe it was 2018, 2019, there was a very, very big wildfire in the Attica region, just north of Athens. Now, this was in the neighborhood where I lived in.

[00:03:27] And it's one thing to see a wildfire on TV and seeing the devastating impacts of them. But it's something else to see this wildfire happening in front of you. And that moment onward, I was actually in my first, uh, company that I co founded, uh, with the founders of Starling Bank. So it was much more into the FinTech space.

[00:03:46] Um, and I realized, you know, what FinTech is really interesting, but what, what am I truly passionate about? What is something that really interests me and like all of my neighbors, we wanted to do something so that this never happens to anyone else. We didn't want someone else to experience, um, going through these, you know, wildfires and.

[00:04:03] These devastating effects of losing your home and losing your loved ones. So very quickly, coming together with one of my good friends from university, Jules, what we realized is, um, we wanted to give a solution so that anyone, wherever you are, um, you would be able to have an impact on the environment across the world.

[00:04:22] And so we thought, okay, how should we do that? Let's create a mobile app so that you can do that really on the go. And we also thought, you know, not everyone has the money to do it. So let's make it for free. And then we thought, okay, what is the best way to have an impact? What is the most powerful way? We wanted something that had a good environmental impact, but also socioeconomic.

[00:04:41] And we realized that tree planting is the best thing that combines all of these things together. Environmental impact because you're helping the fauna and flora in the areas where you're planting the trees, but also socioeconomic because you're paying local work for local workers to go to the site and plant the trees all across the world.

[00:04:57] You know, we're present across, across four continents right now. So thanks to that, we realized, okay, that is actually a solution that can work. So let's create an app which enables anyone to fund a tree planting project. By watching ads in less than a minute every day, and that's why everything came together.

[00:05:14] We realized if you combine all of these things, you can have a perfect solution.

[00:05:19] James Gill: I see. I see. I didn't realize that's actually incredible that, uh, there's no cost to the, the end user to want to do that. It sounded too good to be true when you initially said palm tree is anywhere in the world for free.

[00:05:33] Like, uh, I was going to say, well, who does pay for them? And then, yeah, uh, that's, that's incredible. So Wow. Um, so, so that led you down the whole path of, of building this out and, and how, how has it been? I, I mean, you were saying you've got some amazing brands on board. Uh, how, and you're in four continents, you say?

[00:05:56] Like that's, that's incredible. So do you feel you're Your work is done. Do you feel like you're just getting started somewhere in between?

[00:06:04] Godefroy Harito: We're definitely just getting started. We tipped our toes. What was really interesting is that when we launched the app back in 2020, um, we really launched in 2019, 2020.

[00:06:16] Um, As the app grew, there were more and more organizations that came to us and told us, we love the work that you're doing with reforestation tree planting. We also want to have, um, this tree planting commitment ourselves. And so what we set up after the app was growing is also a platform for organizations to be able to fund tree planting projects transparently, being able to see the impact that they're having the images, the videos of the planting locations.

[00:06:41] All across the world where they're planting trees. So, there's definitely a lot of work to be done, uh, in that space. And both on the user side and also on the, kind of like, corporate side, there's a lot of work to ensure that more people get involved, uh, in the solutions that, that we're building.

[00:06:57] Ultimately, what we want to ensure is that anyone who hears about this, that wants to do something for the planet, doesn't find any excuse to say it's too complicated, I don't know where to go. There's too many things to do. We wanted to simplify it as much as possible and be as transparent as we can in the activities that we're having.

[00:07:15] And that is the whole reasoning behind tree app, whatever the work that we're doing.

[00:07:19] James Gill: Sure thing. That's, um, I mean, yeah, you've really removed basically all the barriers for, I think, I think, especially when I was getting started on the journey with EcoSend, I was very confused. Like, there's a lot of people out there that say they will plant trees.

[00:07:33] I was like, where do you even, how do you even do that? How do you, like, I'm pretty sure these people are not going out there directly and planting trees. And, um. So, removing all those barriers, removing the cost, the effort, like, I mean, it does make you think, why would you not? Um, so, so today then, Guthrie, um, how, I mean, the business is almost like you've got two kind of customers then, I guess?

[00:07:59] You've got the, not to get too, uh, business y about it, but you've got, um, consumers who, uh, just want to do some good in the world, and maybe watch some ads to To, to plant some trees for no money. And then you've got businesses like The Economist, uh, who, uh, I assume are planting a lot of trees. I assume The Economist are not sitting around watching ads on the app and, uh, and planting trees through that way.

[00:08:27] So how does that work? Is it, is it almost like two different business models?

[00:08:32] Godefroy Harito: Yeah, absolutely. You got it right. What was interesting is that our core focus was mainly on the app in the beginning, but as organizations, you know, continued to reaching out to reach out to us, we thought, okay, let's also offer something that can help us reach our ultimate goal is to fund these global tree planting projects.

[00:08:49] Yeah. So there is indeed exactly as you're saying it to, to kind of like. sides to the organization, one, which is a mobile app, which enables anyone in the UK right now in Ireland to fund these tree planting projects by watching ads. And then on the other side, it's this website platform that enables any organization who's interested to fund tree planting projects.

[00:09:10] And the more, uh, planting activities you fund, the more assets you get access to, uh, images, videos, parameters of the science, social media content. Uh, we want to incentivize our partners to fund even more. Um, and our goal is to grow this and grow activities all across the world. We actually started by planting only in four countries.

[00:09:31] I think it might've been Madagascar and maybe Kenya, Indonesia, um, and maybe Brazil to start with as well. And we've grown now to close to 15 countries. Um, really exciting to also know that now we've launched in the UK, uh, and France, about to launch in another country as well in Europe. Uh, we're going to announce this in the next few months.

[00:09:49] So, you know, it's really growing and bringing it at home, you know, last week I was telling you we were endorsed at planting a few trees. And last month we were in Scotland in Berwickshire and in Northampton in England as well to plant some trees in there. In a few weeks we'll be close to Southampton. So it's exciting to see that we can bring this at home and we can get people locally also involved in these planting activities.

[00:10:12] James Gill: Yeah, absolutely. That's um, there's something about, Like knowing the exact sort of like town you're near or whatever to like it really I was gonna say it brings it home. It literally does bring it home. But but I think there's a level of I, I guess maybe even trust that you build by showing that like, you know, when places are far away that I might, I myself as a consumer may never have the, like, pleasure of traveling to, like, the, the fact you can point to places where you've literally dug up some ground and planted a tree there, like, I think there's something very tangible about that, that I'm sure builds a lot of trust for the whole, uh, like, The whole pitch and the whole promise of the service.

[00:10:58] Yeah,

[00:10:58] Godefroy Harito: a hundred percent completely. And, um, we wanted also to plan here because as an, you know, UK based organization, this was our commitment that we are going to, you know, plant trees across the world and working with a lot of users, they wanted to plant trees here. As you're saying, it makes it very real to bring it at home.

[00:11:16] The biggest challenge is, you know, planting trees in the UK is completely different to planting trees in the deserts of Ethiopia or in the mountains of Peru or in the mountains of Nepal or on the coastlines of Indonesia. So to ensure we're doing this properly, we have the, we have actually a group of experts in forestry that oversee all of our planting activities, ensuring that wherever the trees are being planted, it's always the right species that is being planted in these locations.

[00:11:39] And interestingly enough, the same species of tree planted in the UK versus Madagascar would absorb a different amount of carbon in the atmosphere because species planted around the tropics absorb much more carbon from the atmosphere. Now, it depends what is the goal of your planting activity. If you want to plant trees and be able to visit them, you know, in the next hour, they don't have to plant in the UK, but you'll, you'll know the impact is a bit different.

[00:12:04] Um, ultimately our goal is just ensuring that these trees are put into the ground and they're protected and it's the right species and it's done in the right way, whether they're planted in one area or another one. It still reaches our goal of planting more trees across the world.

[00:12:16] James Gill: Absolutely. That's actually a really interesting point and probably not something many people have thought about before.

[00:12:22] Um, it's, it's not a simple science. I think often people want to have a one tree equals this and, uh, everything to be easily numerically. Sorted so they can just add up some sums and, and I guess there's always a, it depends on so many factors, right? Um, that actually, that, that and the sort of the idea of trust is an interesting topic.

[00:12:48] Um, cause I know from, as I've been going along on the journey building Ecosend with the team. We've come across a lot of people that have a lot of skepticism around carbon offsetting and, uh, you know, people talking about getting to net zero, but essentially not actually changing too much about their behavior, but doing the offsetting.

[00:13:13] Do you ever have a sort of conversations with, with your clients and customers about this? Um, Does that come up in discussion? Like, is there anything you would say to that sort of debate? Not to put you too much on the spot, Goffrey, but like, um, you know, it's one of those things where I guess you see a lot of businesses doing carbon offsetting and not changing much.

[00:13:36] And I think that maybe is the issue. But I don't know, did you have any thoughts on that on that whole topic?

[00:13:43] Godefroy Harito: Yeah, the carbon market is definitely a really interesting topic, and it's been widely discussed over the last few years. What is great is that you can see the conversation increasing more and more and more.

[00:13:56] Now, there's a lot of different opinions on this, and the one that I have is that All organizations should, as much as possible, try to, one, calculate their emissions and to, and to reduce it. Now, there's a lot of emissions that just, unfortunately, today, you cannot stop emitting. Whether it's because there's no viable alternative, whether it's because, uh, X or Y reason, there is a lot of different reasons why that wouldn't be the case.

[00:14:24] So It is important to be critical about these carbon absorption, these carbon credits that exist out there, all of these new approaches, because if you just accept whatever exists, I mean, there's been a lot of controversy around, uh, voluntary carbon markets, um, and especially in Colombia, where there was a lot of credits that were issued that shouldn't have been issued, um, especially I think last year, there was a lot of controversies on the garden that was mentioning about it.

[00:14:51] So I definitely think it's important to be critical and not accept everything that you hear. Okay. Um, but on the other front, you know, there needs to be, there's a lot of these projects that are actually really beneficial that, you know, for example, cookstoves projects in Zambia that exist out there, or a lot of reforestation that we're doing across Peru or.

[00:15:11] Tanzania, for example, that we're having that are really seeing these this local impact having it. So it is a, it is an industry that is growing and it is an industry that is growing. Um, we kind of keep an eye on what's happening and we want to ensure that we can support organizations on their. You know, roots to decarbonization, but it's, uh, something we should always stay very critical.

[00:15:34] Uh, and it'll be really, really interesting to see how the next few years evolve with this.

[00:15:39] James Gill: Yeah, absolutely. I guess it's, it's interesting hearing you talk about it. And I think it's also another great example of where topics can easily get boiled down to like good or bad, one or zero kind of, uh, levels in the public domain.

[00:15:56] And often everyone wants to condense things into a, a tweet or whatever they're called these days, a level of detail. And, um, you know, when you look at sort of the projects that TRIAP is helping to fund and support, and we look at that on a regular basis, it's, you quickly realize it's, it's, Partly, yes, there's an aspect of carbon offsetting, but there is so much more to it.

[00:16:22] There is everything about the ecosystems that you're influencing and the, the economic activity and changing people's lives on the ground. And, and I think sometimes we have as a, as a society, this desire to like put a number on everything. And you can't measure a lot of the amazing good that, that, uh, sort of a platform like this is, is causing in the world.

[00:16:44] So, um, Yeah, I, I think it is a really, I guess, yeah, it's good for people to be healthily, um, uh, critical and, uh, and, and take an interest in what is actually going on and not just take, uh, Blanket statement for, for, as fact, but, um, yeah, I think hopefully people don't take a lot of the, some of the headlines recently as being like all, all, uh, tree planting and offsetting is bad.

[00:17:11] Like, don't do it because I think that's sometimes the danger with these things. Everyone throws everything out when actually, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, um, yeah, so I, I know, um, You were saying, uh, I, I guess it was another area you, I know you were quite keen to talk about, go through, which was launching the app in the first place, launching TreeApp and, um, and how, how that, how that went.

[00:17:37] Like, was this, uh, um, so this was a mobile app that you were, you were building and, um, I guess, you know, how, how did you go about getting people to know about TreeApp in the early days? Was it one of those sort of things that people just told their friends about, or? How did you launch the thing and get people to start using it?

[00:17:58] Because clearly whatever you've done has made a lot of people care about planting trees and doing it. So I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who are maybe running a business that may have similar environmental and social goods, um, that would love to hear how you did that.

[00:18:16] Godefroy Harito: Yeah, our, our launch was really interesting.

[00:18:19] I think. For anyone who is launching something like this, um, and I'm saying something like this, I would say that you're launching anything. The biggest, um, and most important bit to consider is who are you solving a problem for? And Here, when we were launching tree up, we were solving a problem that we were having, and that's, what's really interesting that we wanted to feel like we could contribute to reforestation to have a positive impact, but we just couldn't find something that was easy to use.

[00:18:53] That was simple, straightforward that you could do in a few seconds every day. And so we actually were launching something. For almost our own goods, our own purpose. And interestingly, as it launched, we shared it with a few friends, family, and you know, with word to mouth, it starts spreading out there. Um, and so naturally it arrived to a lot of people who exact, who had the exact same problem as us, who wanted to have this impact and just, you know, didn't have time to really go on the site and plant the trees, but could spend, you know, a minute or two every day watching these ads and support the funding of the trees.

[00:19:27] And that's how it all came together. So you really need to solve a problem. Uh, and by solving this problem, you, you, you then have a solution where people will actually guide you, advise you on tips, how to improve your platform, what to do better, what you're missing. If you can improve in certain things.

[00:19:43] So the first and most important core bits is ensuring that you, you solve this problem. And so we launched TRIA back in the day. And, you know, within three or four months, we developed a mobile application. And we received a lot of feedback people telling us no, it shouldn't be a mobile app. It should be a Website.

[00:20:01] No, it shouldn't be a website. It should be just something you put in a newsletter And so, you know, you you receive a lot of conflicting opinions And then it just comes in the end to you move forward with something get it to market get it out there And then you'll see Uh, what, what happens, you know, there's a lot of people that say, ah, but people will steal my idea.

[00:20:19] And, you know, there's always 50, 000 ideas. There's a lot of planting organizations out there, but you know why we're working with, you know, L'Oreal, with The Economist, with DPD, uh, with some of the biggest groups, or we work also with the Ministry of Justice in the UK. It's because we have the transparency in our planting activities.

[00:20:36] We show the impact that it's having. We get involved the local communities in all of the planting sites. We pair, we pay fair wages across our sites. And so all of these things put together means that we are now B Corp accredited. We are part of the World Economic Forum. We are part of the UN Global Compact.

[00:20:52] We are social organizations that has an impact all across our sites. And all of these things put together is what creates. A unique organization and it's not always the first, you know, tree planter that is out there that does the best job is the one that actually finds something that works for people who are interested in it.

[00:21:08] And if it works for me, then I'm assuming it works for all the people like me who are interested in having this impact.

[00:21:15] James Gill: That is such an inspiring, uh, and refreshing, uh, story to, to hear. It's, um, it's incredible as well because I, I think you can look at like the success TreeUp is having today and think, well, you've always had that, but no, you got started.

[00:21:30] And, and I guess for a lot of people when they're on that journey, especially when it's something climate related, I think can have a lot of hesitation about whether they're doing the right thing and whether they're doing, talking about it in the right way and Whether they've got everything, like, 100 percent right.

[00:21:47] And, and I guess, at least my view's always been, like, you gotta put one foot in front of the other, and as long as you keep correcting as you go, then, then that's how you learn. That's the best way to learn. Because I think a lot of people, I'm sure there's a lot of great ideas that just never get off the ground because of Maybe fear or waiting till it's like a little bit further along and, and before you know it, you've, you've gotten a year out of, after you've had the idea.

[00:22:17] So to launch something and then to keep that momentum going and to keep iterating based on the feedback from users is, is. Yeah, truly inspiring. I think there's a wise, wise words indeed, Godfrey. I appreciate you sharing that.

[00:22:34] Godefroy Harito: And I need to add that, you know, of course, it's organizations that we're working with that enable us to do the work.

[00:22:40] Because in the end, we connect a lot of different parties together. But organizations like, as I was mentioning, the Economist, DPD, EcoSend, and all of these organizations out there, really, you know, it is, we're laughing about it. But without without their funding, we wouldn't be able to operate these planting activities.

[00:22:56] So every, every party in the equation is crucial for everything to work.

[00:23:02] James Gill: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No, it's, it's, I mean, out of all the, uh, suppliers that we pay, where we see, uh, paying, uh, an invoice to tree app and we know where that's going, we can see the good it's doing. It's. It's one of the easier invoices to pay, you know, it's also nice to be mentioned alongside the Economist.

[00:23:20] I'll take that. But, uh, but yeah, it's, um, yeah, it's really inspiring to hear that and hear how that's evolved over, over time. Um, I guess, where

[00:23:32] Godefroy Harito: do you see,

[00:23:33] James Gill: you know, things, uh, I think in a good place today, like, uh, well, things are clearly in a good place for Triap. Um. I guess there's some work to do globally around education, around the various climate related terms, uh, net zero, carbon credits, carbon offsetting.

[00:23:55] Um, there's so many terms and phrases out there that for some people are just getting started to learn all of these things. What, where do you see the future going? Where's the future of Of of tree up, but also the wider kind of concept of sustainability and regenerative business going. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

[00:24:16] And I'm not going to hold you to it, by the way, just just, uh, but what do you think right now?

[00:24:23] Godefroy Harito: One thing that is really interesting is thanks to climate change. People are now becoming more and more aware of the importance of biodiversity of conservation of forestry. Um, and. You know, it is a bad for good.

[00:24:40] For example, we've had quite a lot of wildfires in the UK last year. And I think especially the year before now, this was something that it was an extreme rare occurrence. If you look in the last decades, uh, hundreds of years, but because of climate destabilization, we're now seeing so many storms happening in the UK.

[00:24:58] We're now seeing a lot of these wildfires, Greece, uh, Russia, um, Italy, Spain, Portugal are seeing so much more wildfires because of that. And so this is something that finally is happening, which are making people wake up and thinking, you know, it is actually happening. It's not just something that you're hearing in the news.

[00:25:17] And this is making people want to have more of an impact. So what I am excited about is that awareness and, um, activities towards, uh, fighting climate change and towards these activities, you know, that are helping biodiversity are increasing more and more. And I think this is, this is great and this is our fight as much as possible to build this awareness.

[00:25:43] And this is also thanks to our users. Our users are spreading, are referring other people, and this is, you know, kind of like building this community out there. Something we're doing quite often with TreeApp is go out to schools, actually, and to speak with children about the importance of, um, nature, climate, and why we should really look, look after it.

[00:26:03] Um, you know, when they say education is, I don't remember the quote, but one of the important bits in life.

[00:26:11] James Gill: Yeah, I'm not sure what the credit is either, but education is pretty important on this whole subject.

[00:26:18] Godefroy Harito: Um, and I think, you know, it's something that people should be made aware as, as, as you grow. Um, otherwise, you know, it's, it's, I think it's hard to understand it if you're not being mentioned, um, this as, um, in your, in your early ages.

[00:26:31] So where does that bring us? Our goal is to continue growing, to get more. No users and organizations to support our projects to involve even more communities in our planting work You know, it's a lot a lot of work and showing we're always doing the right thing at the right time And we're also learning across the journey, you know The fact we plant over 250 species now all across the world means that you know Some species survive better than other ones.

[00:26:56] Some species are not surviving because of diseases For example, you have the ash dieback in the UK Um, which means that you need to accommodate to that as well. And there's, there's a lot of things that, you know, needs to be considered and it's, it's definitely very challenging. You know, I would be lying if I was saying that everything was easy to move forward with and it's all, uh, all a bloomy and a flowery and everything.

[00:27:18] I would love if that would be the case, but yeah, I think this is just our mission, trying to get the word out there, spread awareness, get people involved, um, and this is not just us, this is anyone out there that wants to grow this awareness about climate, uh, that should be involved in this.

[00:27:35] James Gill: I, yeah, that's, I, yeah, I couldn't agree more.

[00:27:38] I think that's, um. A surprisingly positive outlook on the future, you share that Godfrey, I, I, I mean, you can look at what is happening in the world with, with great concern, but I think, yeah, if there was anything positive to come from that, it's people sitting up and realizing, actually, no, this is not about polar bears in 20 years time, 50 years time, this is about people's livelihoods, communities, communities, communities.

[00:28:10] Today and and I think it's all changing so much faster than people would have expected. So yeah, um, yeah, the the response and the attitude of many people is just overwhelmingly positive sign that we're, we're gonna collectively do more to put things right, I hope. And yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

[00:28:33] Like, this is not just one person or one, one company, like, I think tree app sets the example of, um, yeah. A business that is, is doing well as a business, but also doing an outsized amount of good in the world. And hopefully, uh, hopefully we can see many, many more businesses like that in the future. I certainly hope so.

[00:28:52] And, uh, yeah, I hopefully many, anyone listening, maybe they're, they're building something that is, is, uh, they may be even been inspired by this conversation to. To, to do something. So I, I, yeah, I, I think there's a, a future to look forward to here, which is, is good. Yeah, Godfrey, I, I hugely appreciate you taking the time today.

[00:29:14] Um, if people want to learn more about TreeApp. maybe connect with you. Um, I guess the tree app. org is the

[00:29:23] Godefroy Harito: website, right? Yeah. The tree app. org is the website. Uh, hear more about myself and the activities. Just follow me on LinkedIn. This is where I post, uh, the most and about tree app. The best way to follow our activities is also on LinkedIn and on Instagram.

[00:29:37] You should just search tree up on Instagram. We post quite a lot of content. If you also want to get involved in our planting activities, we post on our Instagram stories about open days where we can welcome volunteers. So if that is of interest, um, yeah, follow us

[00:29:51] James Gill: on social media. Oh, amazing. Okay. That's awesome.

[00:29:55] Well, I should do that too. I don't know if I'm, I am following Triumph, I'm sure, but I'll double check and I'll make sure

[00:30:01] Godefroy Harito: I get it. I hope you do, James.

[00:30:02] James Gill: I hope you do. Thank you so much, Godfrey. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today. Uh, so much. James. Thank you. And thank you everyone for, for listening.

[00:30:14] If you've enjoyed today's show, well, maybe go join Godfrey and the team doing some tree planting. And also do be sure to share this podcast, rate it on whatever, uh, player you're listening to it in. It really helps us spread the word, um, about what, uh, we are doing and what people like Godfrey are doing.

[00:30:33] Hopefully, all in all, we'll be making the world a little bit better by doing that. So thank you and we'll catch you next time.