The EcoSend Podcast

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[00:00:00] Chris W: Welcome to the EcoSend podcast. Be inspired, educated, and entertained by the world's most ambitious leaders putting climate at the top of their agenda. Welcome

[00:00:27] James Gill: to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. I'm your host, James, and I'm thrilled to bring you another show. For those of you new to the show the EcoSend podcast is basically a podcast podcast about building a better business and I speak to leaders who are trying to put other things forward in their business, not just profit, but trying to make the world a little bit better.

[00:00:48] And I am thrilled today to be joined by Matt. and Chrissy who are from the design agency Olson. So Chrissy and Matt are a husband and wife team and they're co founders of the agency Olson, which is a creative consultancy using digital design and marketing for good. And Matt and Chrissy work with lots of purpose led brands, so lots of good things we're gonna be able to talk about there.

[00:01:12] And local organizations on projects that benefit the people so Matt, Chrissy, I'm very excited to be with you today. How are you both doing?

[00:01:20] Chrissie: Yeah, really good, thanks. Really nice to be joining you. Awesome. Awesome.

[00:01:24] Matt: Thank you for having us.

[00:01:26] James Gill: Yeah, it's, it's a pleasure to be speaking. I think, I think maybe I reached out because you shared a wonderful presentation.

[00:01:34] On on the internet, on LinkedIn, I believe. And I, I thought it just seemed so appropriate for our listeners, our viewers. And, and just, it seems spot on with kind of the journey we've been on with EcoSend as well. And so I think this is an all time first for the podcast where you have brought, not just yourselves, but also a presentation.

[00:01:54] So I'm so excited for this. We'll see, this is the first time, so who knows what's going to happen, but I'm already excited. So, but before we get into the presentation, maybe, Matt, Chrissy, it'd be great to hear a bit more on your own words, like what you're up to with Olsen and your own journey. It would be brilliant to hear if you, if you like.

[00:02:12] Chrissie: Yeah, should we start with a little bit with our journey? Yeah! That kind of sets the scene really nicely, so it's sort of That would

[00:02:19] James Gill: be brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it.

[00:02:21] Chrissie: So yeah, and it might be really kind of relatable for some of your listeners as well, because it started kind of seven, seven ish years ago when we became parents.

[00:02:31] And at the same time we started to realize more and more about the urgency of the climate crisis and, you know, and becoming parents start to, you know, Be more future focused and thinking about what kind of world our daughter was going to be growing up in and really feeling like we wanted to start to take action and be part of the solutions.

[00:02:53] And so it very much started at home trying to, trying to do stuff at home. And then we thought, well, let's, let's expand our kind of sphere of influence. Let's see, like, let's try and kind of influence our clients, see what we can do there. And then. And then let's try and get more work that feels kind of in this space and that feels purpose led.

[00:03:12] And let's, okay, and let's not just freelance, let's team up and let's make a business and, and really kind of do this. And then another kind of layer that's emerged over the last couple of years has been, let's take this out. into the community and how can we be creating a positive influence in our local community.

[00:03:29] So and that is where this presentation also originated from because we now run People Planet Pint events. Some folks might have heard of those. So those are very informal meetups that happen in, in local pubs over a pint, getting people together to talk about sustainability and to network.

[00:03:48] And we found that with our local community, people wanted a little bit more input. So we started to put together the presentations with ideas and tips. And that's something that we're going to share a little bit later on this more recent one about digital sustainability.

[00:04:04] Matt: Yeah, I think there was, there was a bit of frustration sort of at, at that point of realization around the climate crisis.

[00:04:11] Cause I, I especially had been in the sort of. Digital, digital marketing and tech and sort of encoding and things and working really with lots of brands who were not necessarily doing good things. And that realization of, Oh, I think I'm just helping people buy more stuff. And, you know, that's, that doesn't seem like a good thing.

[00:04:35] And I think we've just been looking for ways to sort of use our skillset that we already had, but just with a different goal in mind, but. Still doing the same work, but with a different, a different end in, in, in sites, really.

[00:04:51] James Gill: Yeah, that's, that's incredible. It's it's actually wonderful to hear the, the background and the sort of the journey into this.

[00:04:57] I know it's something I, I often ask guests on the show, like, very few people just wake up one day and think I'm going to run a business that does things for the planet and the climate. There's usually a series of events and and I, you know, a lot of people. Us, like, I often have conversations with people, it's like it's only the younger generation that cares about the planet, like, all of us oldies, like don't, don't really give a damn, it's, it's, you know, and actually, you know, I think, like, so much, it's when, when people become parents there's such a, a theme there of, like, this realization, like, no, we need to do everything we can to make this, make, make as many changes as quickly as possible for, for, For well for everyone, but especially when having having children so it's interesting how much that that resonates I'm sure of a lot of people listening.

[00:05:46] Chrissie: Yeah, and you know, we've been really lucky for our journey to kind of start to come full circle We really wanted to Be exemplifying to our daughter what it is to be trying to be part of the solutions and kind of do our, our best to be purposeful and helpful in the world. And, and we, we are doing that in the community and, and also we're now starting to do like assemblies in the local schools.

[00:06:09] Matt: Oh, wow.

[00:06:09] Chrissie: Start to positively influence that, that that generation. We're also looking to put workshops on in local. Local schools. So we're helping kids learn about repair as well as learn about STEM subjects. So learning to repair and gadgets and bits of tech in order to kind of give them repair skills.

[00:06:31] So it feels really lovely to kind of have started with that sense of concern for the next generation. And now we're actively taking steps to positively influence and upskill. Yeah.

[00:06:42] James Gill: Yeah. Yeah, I'm just, I'm curious if if adults can come to that, cause I, I could do with building some repair skills. That sounds brilliant.

[00:06:51] Chrissie: Yeah, you can come to our local repair cafe that we've set up, and you can sit with our wonderful volunteers and learn how to repair stuff. Yeah.

[00:06:59] James Gill: That sounds amazing. I, I love watching the repair shop on on TV. Oh, it's

[00:07:04] Matt: so joyful.

[00:07:07] James Gill: That's awesome. Sorry, Matt, I think you were gonna, you were gonna say something as well.

[00:07:11] Sorry, yeah, I was

[00:07:11] Matt: just gonna say So we sort of moved, we moved out of London a few years ago as a kind of a lockdown move. And what's been really interesting, I think, is how being in a slightly smaller community, you sort of realize how much of the sustainability sort of conversations are sort of wrapped up in things that you can actually solve in a, in sort of local ways by engaging.

[00:07:37] Local communities and more of these kind of grassroots things when it's a small enough place where you can get get into the schools and do a talk and like reach the younger generation and tell them about that or you can put posts up and say there's a repair cafe happening and people can can then come to it or you can start a people planet pint or something and these sort of small initiatives where really you're just talking about people using the high street more.

[00:08:03] Or trying to bring some tourism to the, to the town, and then that benefits people within, within the local area. And that actually, by looking locally, you do get some of those sustainability side effects for free. Because you're just kind of Supporting what's around and you're building this kind of resilient community and it's been quite interesting to see that once you get out of london and you get a bit You can really see changes happening.

[00:08:30] It's sort of yeah, it feels feels like you get that clarity so I think sustainability can sometimes be a bit of a it can be a bit of a Touchy subject for some people I think but you realize that there is common ground When you start talking about air quality or sort of water quality and, and wildlife and habitats and sort of natural beauty and there, there is common ground, even if people have slightly different sort of political views.

[00:08:57] And I think it's been easier to sort of see that there is overlap there. But sometimes you kind of have to approach it in, in more of a kind of a community spirit than necessarily a, a kind of, environmentalist, sort of activist spirit.

[00:09:12] James Gill: Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point actually. I'm so glad you raised that.

[00:09:18] Yeah, it's not like, oh, we're going to come along and tell everyone, force everyone to be recycling and make everyone feel bad if they're not doing the right things. It's actually like this whole, a whole wider, much wider conversation and very community focused approach. I, I really love that. I I must, I must also mention, because believe it or not, after, I don't know how many episodes we've done, People Planet Pints has not come up as far as I can remember on the show.

[00:09:46] Oh. And. And I, I am very well, I, I love Adam, who has, is the one who I believe started it all. And they're just a wonderful thing. So maybe actually just for anyone listening, who's not come across People Planet Pines. I don't know if that even needs any description or explanation. What, what, how would you sum it up?

[00:10:05] Chrissie: Yeah. I mean, maybe we need to intro kind of Adam's business. And actually we. Just to further tease the presentation that we'll go into, we'll talk about

[00:10:14] Matt: this. We've set

[00:10:15] Chrissie: up a wonderful business called Small 99 with the insight that 99 percent of businesses in the UK are small. small. And yet there's very little support for those businesses when it comes to reducing their carbon footprint, having tools or a plan or kind of a way through.

[00:10:36] And so small 99 set up to help enable and empower and connect those small businesses across the UK. And very exciting. It's become even more kind of international.

[00:10:46] Matt: Yeah.

[00:10:47] Chrissie: So one of their offerings is is PeoplePlanetPint. One of the things they help to facilitate, so they help to set up if you've got, you want to be a host of a PeoplePlanetPint like we did in our town, you approach Small99 and they will help you set up the event by Marketing it basically, and you just have to find a pub and they'll send you all the kind of gear from like beer tokens and they secure sponsorship.

[00:11:11] So everyone that comes along can have one free drink and those that kind of greases the wheels for like great conversation with with local people, whether that's students. or OAPs or people working in the sustainability space or just people who are, you know, concerned about the environment, getting them together and just having a chat over, over a pint.

[00:11:33] And it doesn't have to be too worthy. It can be just really fun and nice and connecting. But in a, in a sort of a nutshell, that's people plan. In fact, did you have anything you wanted to say?

[00:11:42] Matt: No, no, that's it. It's just very casual, sort of, chat with people who care about the planet, really, and like a beer.

[00:11:51] Chrissie: Or, what's

[00:11:52] James Gill: not to like?

[00:11:53] Chrissie: Pastry,

[00:11:54] Matt: so,

[00:11:56] Chrissie: like a pastry and a coffee, there's that option.

[00:12:03] James Gill: Or, or you can do both, you know, you might like both, yeah. I'm going

[00:12:07] Chrissie: to say no. It's just for one hand

[00:12:10] James Gill: family. Brilliant. I mean, what's not to like? We're like, you know, in this episode we already talked about bringing a community together.

[00:12:17] We talked about making the planet better, leaving a better planet for our kids. We talked about pastries, we talked about supporting our local pubs. I mean, you know, what's not to like? I you to like? We've already covered so much, but I am conscious we have a wonderful presentation you have put together.

[00:12:35] Should we, what do you think? Should we do the all time premiere and and open the curtains? Yeah, I'm happy if you want to take it away and you know, walk us through. Yeah. Oh, sure.

[00:12:48] Matt: Okay.

[00:12:49] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:12:50] Matt: Well. Yes, we've already talked about what we do, but it's mostly, it's mostly like, we, we try and do creative work for, for, for organizations that are trying to, to make a difference.

[00:13:01] So charities, independents, communities, causes, things like that. And we, we kind of work in the, in the sort of tech UX, digital space, but also doing sort of design identity work and marketing and and consulting as well. And in a nutshell, we try and help the good guys win. So we like to work with people that have a, have a good mission.

[00:13:23] And we did this, we did put this presentation together about sort of sustainability, specifically digital sustainability, really. And we try and make the comparison that it's a bit like a sort of healthy lifestyle. I don't know whether you remember this ad campaign for this girl. I'm just like knocking everyone on the couch.

[00:13:43] And that feels like a really nice way of thinking about sustainability from an organisational point of view as well. Because it sort of, I think it feels quite binary at the moment, like you're either a sustainable business or you're not. And actually, it's a spectrum and it's going to take a little bit of trial and error and you're going to have to form new habits.

[00:14:08] It's much like You know, getting fit or having a healthy lifestyle, you've got to balance all these things. And we're not all going to be marathon runners. We're not all going to be the sort of the greenest business on the planet, but we could start kind of going to the gym. And there's this really nice story about someone who Wanted to, wanted to sort of start a healthy lifestyle and they needed to get into the habit of going to the gym and they spent a long time just packing their bag for the gym, going to the gym but not actually, like they just go to the front door and then go home again.

[00:14:46] But eventually they build up this idea that well, I'm here now. I might as well go in and so then the next step was well I might as well get changed into my gym kit and then well But I've got changed I might as well go on the treadmill for two minutes and gradually building up this habit And I think we can sort of learn a lot from that, from a sort of business sustainability point of view as well, that just sort of small wins are good things.

[00:15:12] Chrissie: And then you end up being someone who goes to the gym, like you can start to identify more and more and it is kind of drips in a bucket and this is how we kind of want to approach digital sustainability. It's not always a topic that's kind of talked about that much and we don't want it to feel, we want to frame it as an opportunity and we've got some tips and ideas rather than it.

[00:15:31] Like the worst thing is when you feel like you're chugging along and you're doing your best and then there's this little rug pull when someone says, Oh, have you thought about such and such? No, I didn't. That's a thing.

[00:15:41] Matt: Yeah.

[00:15:43] Chrissie: It's about kind of tuning in. Remember it strips in a bucket and we've got some really quick wins to share with people that they can quickly and easily implement.

[00:15:51] Matt: Yeah. And I think that the ease, the ease of implementation and the ability for you to keep that up is the main thing. And that, like a lifestyle, it all has to be sustainable, you have to be able to, if you set some standards for your, for yourself or for your business, you need to feel like you can actually keep that up and still make ends, make ends meet, so everyone's going to be in a slightly different position there. Yeah.

[00:16:18] James Gill: I just, I must I must remind myself when you, you're talking about the fitness side of things, by the way, it actually really resonates. I, I remember. Trying to get more into running and someone, a good friend told me it's harder to, it's harder to put your running shoes on. than to run an extra mile.

[00:16:36] And I always think that like, if you can just get your shoes on, then that's, you've overcome the biggest hurdle of all. And like so much that is so true in terms of, of everything here on the business side too. It's really, really love that analogy. It's brilliant.

[00:16:50] Matt: Yeah, it can, it can be so difficult to know where to start really.

[00:16:53] It's quite overwhelming. And you feel like, Oh, if it's, if I'm committing to this, I now feel like I have to be. The, the, the, the, the exemplar of sustainability and that there's no, there are no half measures, but actually, there's always going to be a first step. And that might seem trivial, it might be like, sometimes the small steps feel like, what's the point of doing that?

[00:17:16] That's barely going to make a difference, but it's, it's just building up, there's a drips in a bucket thing.

[00:17:20] James Gill: Totally.

[00:17:22] Matt: But the main thing I think, or at least this is something that comes up when we talk to people about digital sustainability as a sort of subsection of sustainability. And as Chrissy was alluding to, you know, it's one, sometimes that thing where you like, once you've turned over that stone, you can't unsee it.

[00:17:40] And you go, wait, I was quite happy in my In my bliss of thinking that the internet was just this sort of benign, sort of ethereal presence and actually going well actually there's, there is, it's all physical really. There's cables in the ocean that pass things around and all of the all of the websites in the world have to be powered by something and they live on a computer in a desert in Nevada somewhere.

[00:18:08] Yeah. That all has to be cooled, and that takes water, and they're all made of minerals and metals and things that come from the ground, and, and all of those apps and all the technology creates behavior, creates human, it manifests as human action, the way that we use the internet, the way that we use digital tools.

[00:18:27] So it's a very physical thing, even though we think of it as being sort of separate. It's part of, it's part of culture and it's, and it has a physical side, but it feels so detached. So that's kind of the, the, the thing to bear in mind is that there, there are, there are physical sort of side effects of all of this digital stuff.

[00:18:50] And from a business point of view, it's a lot of the time digital tools and and the internet is how, how everything is connected and allows a business to operate. So. How you communicate with, with your people and your supply chain and how you use waste and materials and how you create your products and and then the impact that that has on the environment and the energy that, that all of your products or services, all of the footprint of those is all interconnected.

[00:19:22] So digital sustainability is really looking at that, being aware of that, and it's sort of two things. It's, it's auditing where you're at and going, well, what's the, what is our footprint and what is, you know, What is our business doing in all those different spaces? And then it's gathering insights and then taking some action on the stuff that you can fix and using, using tools to make impact.

[00:19:45] So using that technology as, as, as a means of change.

[00:19:49] Chrissie: And one thing that's great about EcoSend James, you'll be able to say about this, but it's like, you can get a sense of what the carbon footprint of your, your marketing, e marketing campaigns are, and that can be really helpful in terms of that kind of auditing side.

[00:20:05] So yeah, just to kind of weave, weave that in. Yeah, for mentioning us.

[00:20:10] James Gill: Yeah, I appreciate it.

[00:20:12] Chrissie: It can be really hard to know. You're not Getting that information from kind of MailChimp, then you kind of have that free on your website. So that can be a really useful kind of tool for people to kind of tune in when it gets to that kind of auditing side.

[00:20:25] Okay. Where are we actually at? Okay. And so what, what might we need to do to start to, to, to, to change that and take action?

[00:20:33] James Gill: Totally. Totally.

[00:20:34] Chrissie: Yeah.

[00:20:36] Matt: So we've sort of created or sort of identified four sort of buckets, I suppose, that your actions around digital sustainability might fall into that are sort of from, from easy to difficult.

[00:20:52] So. You could swap stuff. So there is some tools where your business is currently operating using a suite of tools, all of the, all the software that your business uses to do, to either run its service or to do its marketing or all the different functions of the business. And there might be some of those where you can literally swap the tool that you're using.

[00:21:14] For one that's, that's less energy intensive and you've automatically just got, you know, got a, got a win there. So Ecosend comes to mind. There are lots of people use, use MailChimp and you could swap out to something that is just, It's just a bit better for the environment. And to

[00:21:33] Chrissie: swap out without a headache.

[00:21:34] Yeah. Because I hear that you make that really easy.

[00:21:38] James Gill: I, I need to be clear here. I've not paid you either. Either of you say anything here. So thank you for this extremely,

[00:21:48] Chrissie: but thank

[00:21:49] Matt: you. Yeah. It is a good example of the type of, the type of software that might fall into that category. It sort of offers the same.

[00:21:59] It's the same value but it's just, it's making, it's making an effort to do something that's a little bit a little bit better. That

[00:22:07] James Gill: is absolutely our goal to, to not let you have to, to not force you to make a compromise is, is a big thing, to do the right thing and not have to make trade offs to, to do that.

[00:22:17] So yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:20] Chrissie: Yeah, making it easy.

[00:22:22] Matt: Then the next section is, is actually additive things. So It might seem sort of counterintuitive where you go, but all this digital stuff has a footprint. So what if we add more? Isn't that, isn't that making it worse? But what gets measured then can get managed.

[00:22:40] And so you sort of have to bring in some new things sometimes to go, what's going on here? What can we add in that's actually going to make, help us make a difference in, in the longterm. So that's where you'd look for some software that's going to help you measure, help you report, or, or maybe just help your, your business make more make more strides in that, in that direction, then reduction would be about, Once you sort of audited things, you actually look for opportunities to reduce the impact that you're making.

[00:23:14] So it might be other swaps that are hard, harder to, to, to make. Like you might want to change your host, your web host for something that is renewably powered. But there is a headache attached. So the reduction side of things is sort of there's hard swaps really, where you're having to make some bigger decisions that will, will affect things and require quite a bit of effort to do.

[00:23:39] And then finally transformation would be. where you looked to digital tools and service design and those kinds of things to actually change the way you deliver value as a business altogether. So maybe you could be the zip car of what it is that you do. And instead of selling things to people, you, you have some access over ownership system that you've had to build.

[00:24:02] You have to make that as software. But then you could be, you've transformed your business model so that you're, you're not doing this kind of create waste, you know it's, it's more about having some, something that people can have access to, and then you're generating less waste and, and you're, you're kind of optimizing things there.

[00:24:22] So that, that's the spectrum really of. sort of digital sustainability transformation.

[00:24:28] James Gill: It's a great way to frame it. I love the, and I love that you got like first steps through to marathon there. Yeah. Brilliant.

[00:24:36] Chrissie: Right. So yeah, for anyone listening in that won't necessarily see the slides like this, so the swap and the add are very much in that kind of like getting your trainers on kind of side of things, whereas the reduce and transform is like much more getting into kind of regular runner stroke marathon kind of territory.

[00:24:54] Matt: Yeah. You have to be really committed to kind of go there. But you need to have, you need to have a shallow end really to get, to get started. But we did put together a few kind of quick wins for, for each of those, just to sort of give a sense of what that

[00:25:11] James Gill: might look like. Everyone loves a bit of practical quick wins.

[00:25:15] This is

[00:25:16] Matt: great. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And at the risk of looking like a sort of advertorial sponsored sponsored. Oh my goodness. A good example.

[00:25:30] It might not just be something like you were saying, because there is going to be a little bit of inertia with moving over your you know, your, your your mailing list and you've maybe built templates or something in MailChimp, which you'd have to recreate. So there's a little bit of effort there, but there could be other, other things like just changing your web browser or something you could use Cozier in Google, for instance.

[00:25:53] So simple, simple swaps like that, where you can find, you can find a piece of software that we're just going to change the thing we're using. Adding something in, something like 1 percent for the planet, we think is quite an interesting platform. Something where you, you just bring that in. It's not a huge amount of friction.

[00:26:11] You're just adding in this extra layer where you're starting to give a little back and it's not a huge amount. And you don't even have, that doesn't have to be a financial commitment. It could be that you do some it's sort of a donation in kind where you, you use your the way that you run a business.

[00:26:29] So if you're a creative, if you're a creative company, you might offer some creative services to the local community, or you might go and sort of paint, paint, paint sort of

[00:26:38] Chrissie: local refuge,

[00:26:38] Matt: a local refuge. Yeah. Something like that. Or run a repair cafe or something. So you. you can give something back without it being sort of onerous.

[00:26:46] Then the reduction side of things, some, there's a really great analytics package called Cabin. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but it's it's Renewably powered, but it also is sort of cookie, cookie friendly. So it's, you don't need to have a sort of privacy banner on your site and things. And, and it gives you some insights into the carbon footprint of the pages that people are visiting.

[00:27:10] So something like that could be a really good way of, of both getting some oversight on how things are at the moment. But also in reducing things as well, because it will be less intensive than something like Google Analytics, for instance. And then the easiest way to start planning a bigger transformation might be just getting onto small 99, which is what Chrissy mentioned earlier.

[00:27:33] Chrissie: And to kind of also, that in itself is kind of quite a quick win because we did this the other day, so one of their offerings that we didn't talk about, Small99 offer short workshops that you can do in a lunch hour that are really fun and interactive and they only cost 50 per business. Which is amazing.

[00:27:52] And so in this one hour workshop, you can start to get a sense of what your carbon footprint is and come away with a really simple, actionable action plan for how you can reduce it with milestones for three to nine months that you can go away and implement. So these, these These are fantastic workshops.

[00:28:15] They're called Carbon Reduction Action Box,

[00:28:18] Matt: CRAB

[00:28:19] Chrissie: for short, and you can find them on the Small99 website, and they're really, really excellent. We'd highly, highly recommend

[00:28:26] James Gill: checking those out. That is hard to say no to, isn't it? That's brilliant. Thank you for giving that a

[00:28:30] Chrissie: shout

[00:28:31] Matt: out. Jesus, CRAB! I think that's a good example of where you, you might get someone who's maybe a bit cynical who, who then says, Oh, but they haven't taken into account, you know, your scope three, and they haven't been forensic about it.

[00:28:47] It's too vague. And actually it's the sort of, well, you know, I'm lapping everyone on the couch kind of thing. At least we're, we're, we're out. We're starting to tune into it. starting to get a bit of an action plan and it doesn't feel too onerous. And if you then do all of the stuff that you've committed to, and you want to go to the next layer, then you could then you could do some more forensic analysis on, on your carbon footprints and things, but it's just about getting started, I think.

[00:29:15] So that's quite a lightweight way of starting a bit of transformation. We'll make

[00:29:19] James Gill: sure we link to these in the description. show notes for anyone listening as well, because yeah, they're all can't speak for ecosystem, but the rest, they sound great. Yeah.

[00:29:29] Matt: Yeah. So these just a bit more on those on those ones.

[00:29:34] And then there were a few others because there are some other quite nice ideas. One of them is about sort of following your spending and that everything that we pay for is business. Is really that that's, that's a, that's an, an action that could have a positive or negative effect on the climate overall.

[00:29:54] And if you follow the money, you start to see how, like how you're spending as a business is, is affecting things. So this bit of software called Kogo it integrates with Xero the accounting software, which quite a few businesses use. And it's quite a quick way of then going, Oh, well now I can see that the spending that's linked to my business account is, is contributing in these different ways.

[00:30:19] And it's another one of those sort of being able to visualize it quite quickly. To see what, what are we voting for financially and what are we contributing to? What are we funding? Yeah. And what are we investing in really by us, in our spending?

[00:30:32] Chrissie: Right. And so this is a really quick win for folks who are like, we want to do that auditing piece, have that sense of where our business is at, how, where do we start?

[00:30:40] Well, this, this is a great start. So just get this, plug this into Xero. You're starting to get a really clear picture of what's going on for your business.

[00:30:49] Matt: Yeah, exactly. Then the idea around sort of e waste and hardware and that the material piece of this kind of digital sustainability puzzle. There are some, there are some companies that are helping with that, that, that will provide you with refurbished hardware or take the hardware away.

[00:31:08] And when you're when you're done and so that's saving you money on new hardware and it's also sort of Diverting quite a lot of stuff away from landfill. So there's there's a london based company called click k y k And that's what they're all about. So just trying to more on the kind of hardware side, but looking at the, the, the end of life for products and trying to encourage reuse and refurbishing. Lots of green hosting companies are out there. It's a bigger, it's a bigger shift maybe if you're, if you've got a big website that's sort of on quite specific hosting, but if you're looking to launch something new, it's a good time to look at whether you can find a web host that's renewably powered.

[00:31:50] And then there's, there are some quite interesting logistics companies out there. There's one called Lime Loop who are doing this as reusable packaging. So you work with them as part as they help you with running deliveries. If you have that type of business so that you're not constantly sending plastic packs out and loads of cardboard boxes and things because all the cardboards.

[00:32:14] You know, great. And recycling, if you can avoid even having to do that and it's a totally reusable shipping container, then that's, that's even better. So there are, there are companies out there who are offering these, these services.

[00:32:27] Chrissie: And also just like little mailer bags and things for kind of general e commerce businesses.

[00:32:33] They're great. And then all the customers need to do is just pop them straight back in the post and they just get recirculated. So it's great for the secular economy geeks. Yeah,

[00:32:45] Matt: so that's it. That's our little, that's our little presentation on digital sustainability. And it's, but it is really just that idea of getting started and not feeling like you have to be, you don't have to run a marathon.

[00:32:58] You could just start, you know, making a few little habitual changes and, and take baby steps.

[00:33:05] James Gill: What a wonderful, wonderful presentation. I'm so glad you shared that, Matt and Chrissy. There's, there's honestly so filled with practical steps people can take and, but also just a hefty amount of like inspiration and sort of things to think about in our, our daily lives.

[00:33:21] I, I, I think like, you know, there's probably a lot of people watching this that maybe, maybe already doing a lot of these things, but I think this is a really brilliant, Show to sort of take to other people and, and sort of say like, you know, you maybe have a friend or someone in your business that's like a bit skeptical or not thinking they've got time to do this.

[00:33:44] I think this is just such a, you know, this is a contagious sort of a way of thinking about things that I, I, I just, I find it so inspiring and motivating. It's, it's really a wonderful, wonderful thing to share. So thank you both of you for for bringing it, bringing it to the table. It's brilliant.

[00:34:04] Chrissie: Oh, you're so welcome.

[00:34:05] We really hope it will be helpful for people. So, yeah, it's great to have this opportunity to share. I'm

[00:34:10] James Gill: just excited for us getting this online and, and I hope we can get it online soon so we can more people can see it. So, thank you so much. I, I know We've gone through so, so much there, but I didn't know if there was anything else you wanted to share.

[00:34:22] I didn't know if there was any, I mean, we've already shared so much advice. But if there was any, any links we'll put in the show notes. But is there any way specifically you'd like people to head after this if, if they want to do anything more?

[00:34:36] Chrissie: Yeah, well I think just we'll share the link, just check out, check out the link in the, in the,

[00:34:41] Show notes.

[00:34:42] And then just an invitation to see, like, maybe, is there one thing that you could do, like, I think that would be the, the thing, like, what, what thing would be achievable for you and see if you can add that is a brilliant, I

[00:34:54] James Gill: already, I already feel like I've got my work cut out, my homework for the, for this evening now, so.

[00:35:00] Amazing. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Matt and Chrissy. It's been a, been a real pleasure. Thank you for joining me today. so

[00:35:08] Matt: much. Thanks for having us, James. It's been great.

[00:35:11] James Gill: Yeah. If you've been listening or watching today's show, I know it's been a different one and I, I'd love to hear what you think of it.

[00:35:18] I've had a whale of a time. It's been brilliant. So if you've enjoyed today's show, please let us know. And please do tell your friends and colleagues and whoever you want about it. It would be, it'd be a pleasure. We really want to get Matt and Chrissy's story out there as far and wide as possible. So thank you for watching, listening, and we'll catch you next time.

[00:35:38] Cheers.