The EcoSend Podcast

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[00:00:00] Chris W: Welcome to the EcoSend podcast. Be inspired, educated, and entertained by the world's most ambitious leaders putting climate at the top of their agenda. Welcome

[00:00:27] James Gill: to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. podcast. I'm your host, James, and I am thrilled to be joined by Helen Neal this week. Helen has founded her own sustainability communications company, so today we're going to be talking about communications quite a bit. I'm very excited about this. HN Communications is the company and the whole goal is to bring businesses and organizations together through the genuine belief that they can enact positive change in the world by enhancing their activities and communications around sustainability.

[00:00:58] So, Helen, I'm very excited to be speaking with you today. I know you've got an extensive experience and have seen a lot of incredible brands over the time you've been working in this world and I'm looking forward to digging into all of this. So, Good to see you. How are you doing today?

[00:01:14] Helen Neal: It's really good to see you, James.

[00:01:16] And honestly, it's really great to be part of the podcast. So thanks so much for having me. And I'm good. Even though it's a bit of a dull grey May at the moment. I am well, thank you.

[00:01:28] James Gill: That's awesome. Well, note the show is nothing without people like yourself joining, so I'm very pleased to have you on, on, and yeah, I, I don't know what's happening with the weather.

[00:01:38] It's, it's, it's a very, very miserable day, isn't it? I'm so miserable, and I, I

[00:01:43] Helen Neal: need, I need a bit of sunshine, but anyway, we'll bring some sunshine to this podcast. Let's

[00:01:47] James Gill: do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. So Helen, maybe do you want to tell us a little bit more about HN Communications and and I guess the natural progression from there would be, how have you, what's your journey been to running HN Communications?

[00:02:01] We'd love to hear about it. Yeah, sure.

[00:02:02] Helen Neal: So, HN Communications, I think like Beautifully said at the start. So we are a sustainability communications agency or consultancy. I, I still struggle to know whether we're agency or consultancy. I'm not really sure what the difference is, but we basically help businesses and NGOs communicate on On sustainability, so I guess our niche really is around working with large global corporates and also working with global NGOs, and we help both sides, I guess, really communicate on their sustainability in a range of different ways.

[00:02:35] We do everything from, writing, storytelling, video and film to creating kind of what we call moments, big events where we can bring communities and those different worlds together to communicate on sustainability. And we, I think we're on a bit of a personal mission, myself and the team to really encourage business to see sustainability as a mechanism for growth to enable them as a business to be a force for good in the world.

[00:03:04] And I think we believe really strongly that it will be business. not government, not myself. You know, it's, it has to be big business that really take the lead and take the charge on kind of making a difference when it comes to sustainability. So we really encourage that with the brands that we work with.

[00:03:22] James Gill: Yeah, no, absolutely. So rather than seeing it as a sort of, Oh, we have to do something about sustainability and we've got to sacrifice lots of stuff, like actually seeing sustainability, As this driver of growth and a way for businesses to thrive rather than ticking a box or making sacrifices.

[00:03:43] Helen Neal: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:45] James Gill: Well, that's, that's a positive, a positive message already. I think that's a good, that's a good sign. And I guess, I think you mentioned before the show, but you've been working with some Amazing brands yourself, right?

[00:03:57] Helen Neal: Yeah, we do. We're, we're really lucky actually. I guess my, my background has always worked.

[00:04:02] I've always worked in the corporate world. I worked in the corporate world for about 15 years prior to starting my business. And so I guess that happened to just be the, the world and the industries. That I knew so it felt like an easy, I say easy, I think there's a, there's a misconception as a small business owner and we're a team of 12.

[00:04:20] So we are effectively a small business. We are, we like to say that we are a small global business. And I think these small global businesses are really growing and are actually able, able to step into the space where usually, or in the past, it has only been the domain of large, big global agencies.

[00:04:40] And so, We have a really fortunate opportunity, I think now, but just because of the way that the world is and the fact that we have all this technology, the businesses like mine and probably a lot of those of your, of your listeners can actually also sit at the table with some of these big, big brands.

[00:04:56] And it's where we feel most comfortable. And it's also where we feel we can see. And, and enable the most kind of positive change at impact and at scale, really. So we work with lots of businesses across the food and beverage industry from automotive in the past. But we also work with NGOs a lot, and I think this is the other side of our business that we're really proud of.

[00:05:21] So we work a lot with NGOs to work on campaigns that really focus and target in on the corporate world as well. And I think. We like to sort of see ourselves as sitting between the NGO world and the business world and being able to kind of bring both sides together. Because I really think James, that going forward to really make meaningful change, I think these two sectors of our society need to work much more hand in hand.

[00:05:47] And I think as sustainability becomes An evermore growing piece of a businesses bottom line NGOs are going to have and will continue to have, I think, a really important role in holding them to account, but also helping them to keep going and providing that rigor and that external advisory and support as well.

[00:06:08] So I think the world of the NGO is. Is potentially changing in that relationship between the two. So that's a bit I'm, I'm particularly interested in and a place where we really like to sit and feel really comfortable in.

[00:06:20] James Gill: That's, that's really interesting actually, I, I totally agree and I, I think from, from our side and a lot of the conversations we've had, like, sort of feels like, I don't know, at least before we were on our, on our journey with EcoSend, I, I used to just kind of stupidly think like, businesses, we do the profit bit, and then charities and NGOs sort of do the good, the good stuff and like, neither the two shall meet, and like I don't know, And, and actually it just, it's incredible how much good can come from collaboration and, and conversation there and what a business can bring to a charity or an NGO and, and vice versa.

[00:07:00] It's, it's incredible. And, you know, you look at for a lot of business now, it's like, how do you, how do you, People working at a business want to be doing something more than making profit, like they want to have, a lot of people want to have impact beyond how much money their company makes and the opportunities there seem to be only growing and increasing which Is a positive side, I think, for human, humankind, I

[00:07:29] Helen Neal: really agree with that.

[00:07:30] And I think certainly like, you know, for the team, my team, that's super important that why are we getting up every day? You know, we are a business. I'm a big promoter of capitalism, but capitalism in the right way. And I think, you know, we perhaps in our generations kind of growing up, we've seen it.

[00:07:49] really shocking way, you know, and I think that that has damaged the original concept and I think it's, it's in danger of us kind of possibly losing the debate on it almost. And I think we, we need to realign business so that you know, Profit is there and it's something that is required and needed for a business to grow, but we also need to put people and we need to put planet within that mechanism of a business strategy so that it's a holistic approach.

[00:08:21] It's not just one sided or leaning to one particular way. And I think. We're seeing more businesses go in that direction. And I think people power, consumer power is demanding much more of that from our, from our businesses as well. So these are real positives. And I think it's easy to open up on, you know, our, our phones, look at the news every day and feel so.

[00:08:46] Depressed and like sometimes when I tell them what I do, they're like, don't you just get so depressed though? Isn't it just like really frustrating like, and I'm like, no, not at all, because I think there is so much hope and positivity to be had in this space and there is stuff happening, but it is going to be business that is going to be this driving force behind it.

[00:09:08] It's not going to be our governments, I think.

[00:09:11] James Gill: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I, I also think, yeah, you can kind of sit back and watch the news or listen to the news or read it and be unhappy or you can kind of go out there and make, make better news and make the good news and be part of the part of the change. It's yeah, I, I, yeah, we need more people like you doing, doing, doing this.

[00:09:33] So that's very, very inspiring to hear. I, I, I'm curious then. You're now running this, you mentioned a background in, in corporate and corporate life, which is, you know, very different to mine. So I think there's probably a lot, a lot more we can unpack there, but talk me through a bit more about the journey.

[00:09:52] Like, you know, I, I take it you didn't just wake up and think I'm gonna, I'm gonna run, run my own business now and

[00:09:59] Helen Neal: change

[00:10:00] James Gill: everything for the better. So where did this sort of desire start and what led up to to you ultimately running the business?

[00:10:07] Helen Neal: So I think I actually we were talking earlier.

[00:10:10] I had a background in politics. So originally when I left university, I went and I worked in the House of Commons and I would definitely say to anyone that was, or is still even interested in politics these days, that that is the place to go, really, to kind of understand how decisions and the world of government actually runs, because I think we see it, you know, As an outsider and actually perhaps the reality inside is something slightly different.

[00:10:35] I have probably have, I probably have more respect to a certain degree for having seen it on the inside, but also probably quite a deep level of frustration sometimes as well. But so I worked in politics and I've always, always been interested in this, in the way we communicate, not, not to sell, because that was never my thing, but it was more about how do we communicate to shift someone's mindset or change someone's actions for the better.

[00:11:07] I think I've always been fascinated in what, how people do that. What is it that needs to be done in order to move us from one point to a different point in the world? And so I think politics was a good place in which. To start and for me to understand that I then moved and worked in the corporate world for a long time.

[00:11:24] So I worked for some amazing brands like Virgin Atlantic, which was an amazing job. And then latterly at Nissan and both of those Industries that are quite polluting and it won't be surprising therefore to know that I, with, with the role that I did for them, which was in government relations, We always looked at kind of policies and regulation around, you know, environmental things and that type of stuff.

[00:11:49] And it was in the real early days where people weren't really talking about this quite so much. The introduction of the electric car. So I did that with, with Nissan. And so I'd always just kind of got pulled into this sustainability space, but it was not something that I imagined I would set up as a business.

[00:12:06] And I think some people, I don't know why people set up businesses. Cause I think a lot of us that run them, we are, we're kind of, I don't know, we kind of set ourselves up for like pain. It's not an easy journey, right? It's you, you probably don't go into it lightly, but I, I left my corporate job. In all honesty, because it became very difficult for me to bring up two young sons and work in that environment, I also felt that my career got kind of put on the shelf a little bit once I returned after having my two sons.

[00:12:45] And I think sadly, the more I've spoken about this, the more I hear from men and women about that part of their life where they choose to have a family and how that Negatively still impacts them when they go back to work. So we see all this kind of messaging around, you know, stuff changing when it comes to kind of, you know, families and the workplace and stuff, but I still think the challenge is there.

[00:13:09] So that became too difficult. I couldn't square the circle. That's a long story for probably another time, but in short, I left and I've never quit a job in my life and not had something to go to.

[00:13:22] James Gill: Right. Right. But this,

[00:13:23] Helen Neal: this one, I, I just couldn't stay. It was just, I couldn't, I couldn't keep it up. So I left, didn't know what I wanted to do, but luckily some of the people from my corporate world got wind that I was leaving and asked if I would go in and consult for them.

[00:13:38] And so. I thought, well, why not? It saves me having to just live off baked beans. So let's do a bit of work at the same time as I have my young kids. So I did some consulting and it really was a light bulb moment. This feeling of being on the other side, having been in the corporate world for such a long time, being on the other side, going into a company, being that helpful advice and support and seeing it in a different perspective and just really getting it.

[00:14:05] That gave me such a buzz. I felt really valued. I felt like I had purpose and to your point we were saying earlier, James, when it comes to like doing a job. It is not enough to just go home every day with your paycheck. Maybe it is for the odd few, but I think for the vast majority of us, we need to have a sense of purpose in the work that we do.

[00:14:25] And I'd found that again after quite a long time. So I think that that was the start. It then got More and more and I took on more work and then I brought in more freelancers and kind of built myself a bit of a freelance community and I think the beauty of the freelance community is it is super supportive.

[00:14:43] There's a real understanding in terms of how we will work together and there's a real sense of collaboration and entrepreneurial spirit. So I really enjoyed that. Working in that, in that community and kind of building that up. And then it probably wasn't until around COVID actually, ironically, where I, I sort of made the decision to perhaps start properly pursuing this as a, as a business.

[00:15:05] And I think every year since I keep. Asking myself, am I, am I proper business now? Yeah, I think I probably am. It's crazy, isn't it? Because it, these things kind of happen organically. But it wasn't until maybe 18 months ago, because we've seen rapid growth in the past sort of 18 months, that I had a client actually, and she said, oh, you know, so what are your plans for HN next year?

[00:15:26] And I said, oh, I was about to kind of tell her about that, you know. Hi, someone probably going to do this and that and I paused and I said, well, what do you think I should do? She said, you need to go all in you just need to jump right in on this one now and it Occurred to me and this happened just before Christmas and it those words like rang in my ears all over Christmas I just couldn't get away from it really bothered me.

[00:15:47] I think it bothered me for two reasons. It bothered me because I was scared that if I went all in, like, what if it fails? And I think that's a really natural feeling that we have. But what surprised me was I also thought, well, what if I go all in and it really succeeds? I think that terrified me even more.

[00:16:07] And I thought it was so weird that that would be the thing that was holding me back. So anyway, I jumped and I, I went for it. We've, we've been growing sort of really well ever since. So that's really, that's really the journey in a, in a nutshell.

[00:16:22] James Gill: Wow, what an yeah, what an incredible journey. I that's amazing to hear how and I I feel like there's a lot of things to even unpack on that journey already.

[00:16:32] And without even digging into what, like all of the amazing work you're doing now with the business. So I, I, I'm, I'm curious, I'm curious, rewinding just before we do jump into some of the, the, the work you're, the great work you're doing now I'm curious about back in the day, it's like, it's, I guess it's easy to take for granted now where we're at with the level of consumer sort of, I guess, awareness around Sustainability and how much almost like consumer behavior is like demanding brands do better Rewinding back to when you were working with say Virgin Atlantic Like how do you what was the conversation like back then and it's interesting just I'm just curious to contrast that where we're at today It's like how what's a conversation with a An airline about sustainability, like back when you were working there and what were those debates and things you were talking about there?

[00:17:29] Because Yeah, I'm just wondering like how, how that, how that's evolved and changed or whether you were talking about stuff back then that's now coming to fruition today.

[00:17:38] Helen Neal: So I think Virgin were quite unique in, and I guess it won't surprise you, but they were always quite unique in this space that it felt at the time, like they were really the only ones talking about it and willing to talk about it.

[00:17:54] Right. I think there were lots who were either afraid to talk too much about it or we're trying to find ways in which. This was before the whole concept of greenwashing and it wasn't that at all, but it was more around like, how do we preserve the business and the industry that we have rather than thinking about, well, this, this change is probably, is, is actually inevitable.

[00:18:23] It is, it's going to happen maybe in the next 10, 15 years, but it's going to happen. And the airline industry take a very long time in which to change largely because when you place an order for an aircraft, it takes eight years. seven to eight years for that aircraft to actually become ready to, to use.

[00:18:41] So you're having to make business decisions in a really, you know, advanced period of time, which is very different to a lot of other businesses.

[00:18:50] James Gill: Yeah. It's not a lot of businesses where you even know where you are next week, let alone eight years away.

[00:18:56] Helen Neal: So I think it's, it was a challenge and I think, but I think with Virgin, they, At the time, whilst I was there, they had, they set up a sustainability department for the first time.

[00:19:08] So that was relatively big for an airline industry. And they also were the first airline to, to run a biofuels flight whilst I was there too. So this was about,

[00:19:19] Trialing. Essentially the point was about like, how do you, trial alternative fuels to using fossil fuels in your aircraft and like, what could that look like?

[00:19:30] And at that point, the assumption was that this was just not possible. You needed specific, you know, aviation fuel. And they did it because they were That's kind of what Virgin does and they proved that you could, it was possible. There were no problems on the aircraft apart from just like a small crew.

[00:19:48] James Gill: I wouldn't want to know on the runway just about taking off to hear that.

[00:19:52] So

[00:19:52] Helen Neal: yeah, but I think this is, and this comes back to probably, you know, what else we might talk about, but it's about demonstrating your sustainability and demonstrating the art of the possible. Part of this work in terms of the communications that. We have to do within sustainability is not talk about it in the, you know, concepts and the ideas, but talk about the realities and the pragmatism and action being taken, even when it doesn't work, but the action is, is happening.

[00:20:23] And so I, yeah, it was a very different time. Lots of people were not interested in sustainability whatsoever back then, apart from like a small niche. And if you were in that niche, you would. Seen as a little bit weird sometimes and definitely anti business, whereas I don't think that's the case anymore.

[00:20:40] I think there are still people that feel sustainability is one of those kind of financial drains on their business. And it's, you know, it's something they're going to have to do and tick box. And we'll just do a little report at the end of the year and we're done. But I think there are growing, there are CEOs now out there that say, no, this must.

[00:20:59] Transcend all of our business strategy, all of the decisions that we make. And it's not the responsibility just of the sustainability lead. This is the responsibility of all of us in the C suite, but also all the way through our business in terms of the decisions that we make and the things that we do.

[00:21:16] So I think it is changing, but it's, it's sometimes it can feel glacial.

[00:21:22] James Gill: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like there's, oh my goodness, Helen, there's so much more I want to talk about on, on, on some of the stories from, from back in those days. But I guess I would just say, like, I can only imagine the amount of courage it must take for people within a business like that.

[00:21:39] It still, I think, takes some courage for people to be Speaking up about sustainability and trying to drive that forward, as you say, like there are still a lot of people out there

[00:21:49] Helen Neal: Yeah.

[00:21:49] James Gill: That really see this as an inconvenience that see this as a detractor, a distraction. So to be speaking up about that in the airline industry however many years ago, like, that's, that's incredible.

[00:22:01] So, yeah. Yeah. Hats off on, on that front. I, I, I know, I mean, I feel like we're flying through our half hour. Helen, I, I wanna make sure I also touch on some of the. Some of the topics of which you're working on

[00:22:13] Helen Neal: at

[00:22:14] James Gill: HN. So, you're helping businesses with their communication strategies. How, do you have any good sort of tips and advice on how, how businesses can get started on this if they're maybe not?

[00:22:26] not too sure where to begin. I'm sure you're probably a good person to talk to about how to, how to get this right.

[00:22:34] Helen Neal: Yeah. And I think, I think it depends on the type of business, well, the type of business you are in terms of perhaps your size, because there is a level of like how much, how much capacity is there?

[00:22:44] Can you have, you know, within your business to kind of focus on this? I think we have to be realistic. Cause you know, I'm all for you know, pragmatism and action over perfection, right? So I think it's always about starting from a point where, you know, where are you at today? What is your business strategy?

[00:23:03] And understanding, you know, where those biggest impacts are that you have as a business, but in terms of your impact on the planet. Right. But also your impact on your people, whether that's the people that work for you, your customers or your suppliers. And, and also looking around, you know, that, that kind of profitability element, you need to have all of that in place.

[00:23:24] And I think looking at the strategy, the business strategy is always the first place that we would start. Obviously like the CEO and C suite need to be bought into this. I mean, I'm always, and it may sound harsh, but I'm not interested in working for businesses that need to be convinced by me that this is something that they should do.

[00:23:43] If that's the case, we're not the right people for them. So, you know, it's always got to be a CEO and a, and a leadership team that are like, we're up for this. We want, we want to do it and we want to make a change. I then think it's about setting yourself some realistic goals and having a, a roadmap to how you want to get there.

[00:24:02] There will be elements like legislation and regulatory requirements that you need to bake in, but there will also be some aspirations from you as a business that you want to take the lead on. And I think it's also okay to not try and do everything. All at once. It's about, as I say, this practical focusing on the things that you can do and start working on those and bring your, bring your teams in, bring your employees in, because I often find that when you engage with them and you ask them questions.

[00:24:32] They come up with some of the most incredible solutions and ideas because they're often the ones that are on the factory floor or, you know, working in HR where, you know, this, this is where a lot of the solutions come from. So I think it's about being open to allow that flow of recommendations and ideas to kind of come up as well.

[00:24:51] And then I think once you've got that strategy in place, it's then about saying, right, how do we now. Talk about this as a business. And I think it's also about looking for that wider support. We talked about community earlier from like, you know, I was saying about freelance community. I think it's also about business recognizing that the old way of doing things about just operating within your industry and within your sphere was enough, but I think when it comes to sustainability, it's recognizing that actually.

[00:25:23] If you're passionate about taking a lead in this space, the chances are that if you're a a Carlsberg, you might also want to work alongside a Unilever and a Microsoft because all of you might be looking for a specific solution to a sustainability issue that actually all three of you from very different sectors can collaborate and work together.

[00:25:47] And I really think we're going to see much more of that. Into industry collaboration around sustainability solutions as we move through this, this journey to net zero, right? And I think looking at those opportunities, I see, I see businesses really succeed in that space where there is this. Openness to collaborate well outside of your industry.

[00:26:09] But I think if you're a small business, so like us, for example, we're a B Corp. I think there are still lots of mechanisms out there where you don't have to just say, well, we're too small. We, we, we can't really do sustainability. There's lots that you can do to kind of challenge yourself in that regard.

[00:26:26] There's Lots of solutions, like we use ecology, for example, which is a great tool and system to kind of really track your carbon emissions, but also, you know, putting policies and actions in place that show that you are quantifying and you are tracking and you are doing things about it, even on a small scale.

[00:26:44] I think it's important. And then finally, I just say for all businesses, things like CSRD, which is a European, and it will come into the UK regulation, which. It's going to require all businesses to start reporting on sustainability, which is a really good thing. It's also about preparing for that and kind of perhaps shifting your approaches around how your business currently thinks and feels about sustainability.

[00:27:09] It not being that tick box and it's starting to be incorporated into your business strategy. I really think that is always the first place that you should, should start when you're kind of really saying, right, we're going to be serious about this now.

[00:27:22] James Gill: Yeah, no, absolutely. I I love some of the stuff you're saying there, like, in terms of the collaboration it, it, it can bring together.

[00:27:31] I, I think maybe even like companies that even compete with each other may end up collaborating on, on some stuff. Like I know in our sector, like a lot of companies just trying to, trying to do the right thing and I think one thing I've noticed is generally, like, the community of people that care about sustainability and, and I guess business for purpose in some regard, like, it's a very supportive world.

[00:27:59] Like, there's a lot of business where everything is competitive. You don't talk to each other. You're, everyone's an enemy. Whereas in this world, it feels like there's a, generally just a much more supportive and collaborative approach. And I think that, that is a, well, that is necessary rather than just a good thing.

[00:28:18] I agree.

[00:28:19] Helen Neal: I agree.

[00:28:20] James Gill: Yeah. And I, also to your point on, on small businesses that can make change. It's like, I guess, you know, as a small business, there's often a, an excuse of like, Oh, well, even if we do stuff, the big guys, if the big guys don't change, then nothing really matters. But then the big companies are like, well, we're too big to change.

[00:28:39] Like, we've got too many things. It's too hard. We're too busy doing other stuff. So everyone's got an excuse. But like, I'm just amazed at how much impact a small business can have. And and how much opportunity as well, I think there is as a small business to. Stand out, actually, if you, if you take this stuff seriously, like it, it you know, to what we were saying earlier, it's not like, Oh, we spent three months trying to be more sustainable and our business is tanked.

[00:29:06] It's like, actually, no, if we focus on these values, could also help us grow the business and stand out in a crowded market. So, yeah, so much positive stuff there. Conscious, I feel like this time is flying by Helen, but I really wanted to just touch on a few things particularly around how you're building your business and and, and, and, and just how, how that's happening.

[00:29:30] You mentioned you're a global business bus, small business. It's always interesting hearing. So the inner workings of another company that is putting sustainability and climate front and center.

[00:29:41] Helen Neal: So we, we're a global business. We say that because we work with global organizations but we are also global in the sense that we have a team here in the UK, we have a team in the Netherlands and we have a team in the Philippines, so we're kind of spread Globally as well.

[00:29:57] And we are all fully remote. That was always a conscious decision well before COVID. We, we were always fully remote. And I think that was something that was very important to me in terms of having that 100 percent kind of flexibility on my time. And that's the same for the rest of the team. And we, we have a model where we have a group of kind of associates and we have a few smaller number of full time employees.

[00:30:24] But I would say that the majority of the associates work with us either on long term projects or have worked with us for three or four years. So these are long term associate members of our organization. But what I love about that is As a business owner, the way that we have our model is that it forces, forces is the wrong word, I think in, it reminds me every day that these people have come to work for me is a privilege and that I have to work and it's my job to ensure that They are happy that they are working on great and meaningful work that that they, that they feel good about being here in all, in every, in all the things that that means.

[00:31:12] So rather than, and one of the things that used to drive me mad when I worked in that kind of corporate world is this feeling of like, here you go, here's your job. You now need to be super grateful to us and we can ask you anything we want. Out of you because you now work for us and I felt, I always found that really deeply uncomfortable.

[00:31:30] So I think we've, we work really hard to kind of see it the other way. And I think that really works for a really happy, collaborative energized team, which I think is, The absolute core of any successful business. We, we work with global corporates and I would say again, to like lots of small businesses, this assumption that, Oh, you're too small.

[00:31:53] You can't work for a big global corporate. They won't take you seriously. You haven't got enough people. You know, we started seven years ago and we have always worked for large global businesses. I think it's about understanding your customer. Whether your customer is a large global corporate or whether it's a small business entity, it's about understanding your customer.

[00:32:11] Can you, can you speak their language? Can you understand their pain points and their pressures? Can you understand when you put a presentation in front of them, all of the challenges that they're going to have? Taking that back into their business to try and implement it, you know, it's all of that kind of stuff.

[00:32:27] So we understand that, I think, really well, and I think I would just love to encourage more small businesses to, to see that, that type of work is possible for us now more than ever. So

[00:32:40] James Gill: yeah,

[00:32:41] Helen Neal: that's, you know, and I think, I think it's about getting out there and I think trying to show a bit of value. So.

[00:32:46] We, next week, we're running our second big dinner where we're bringing sustainability leaders together, and this is from the NGO world and the business world together. So I think, as I said to you before, we're on a little bit of a mission to kind of bring these two communities together, because we really feel the more conversations these two groups have, particularly in the sustainability world.

[00:33:07] The more we will see change be accelerated and things happen more quickly. Yeah, yeah. So that we're, we're, we're really privileged to be working at climate week and New York this year as well. We did it last year. We're doing it again this year. So we're working to help deliver that. So that's really, that's like our big thing that we're really looking forward to.

[00:33:27] James Gill: Amazing. I, I, that's fantastic. I, I, exciting times ahead then, Helen. I I, I feel like we could easily make this show like four hours long and And four episodes. I can see

[00:33:39] Helen Neal: the audience listening though, that's the problem.

[00:33:42] James Gill: Helen, I, I would love to chat more, but I, I know we have to try and keep the show to about half an hour.

[00:33:48] It's been an absolute privilege speaking with you. I was there any sort of parting thoughts you wanted to, to leave us with? I, I know you had some thoughts on the future but I, I, and maybe any advice I, I, I, I'm always keen to hear if you have any advice, not that you haven't already shared, a bunch of inspiring thoughts for us, but yeah, I would love to.

[00:34:07] So here, anything you have on that side?

[00:34:09] Helen Neal: I mean, I would just say, I think, I think the business world is changing. I think you know, I think you talked about it earlier and we talked about it, but I think, you know, the concept of what a business is here to do, I think is changing because of the demands of The way that we as consumers think businesses need to think, do and act now, and I think that's a good thing.

[00:34:29] I think you can either get on board with that change and you have the opportunities for abundant growth and development as an organization, or you can choose to stay in your world as things stand, but like some of those airlines back in the day that I mentioned, but you will get left behind. And I think time will tell, but I firmly believe that, that the, the culture of what a business.

[00:34:54] Is now, and the need for greater collaboration well outside of your comfort zone and your industry, or maybe even those, you know, enemies and competitors will no longer be about so much about competition, but it's about wider collaboration. I think it's really exciting. I think that gives lots of businesses like ours and the ones that may be listening to this, that there's abundant opportunity to kind of be part of that movement and to help these businesses who, who are, you know, struggling to transition that, you know, it's people like us that can really help them enable that change and get there in a less painful, more dynamic, more exciting, more positive way, I think.

[00:35:37] So I think we can be negative about the world that we live in right now, but actually I think there's a lot of positive change that's happening that we can get on board with. So that's probably what I would leave with.

[00:35:48] James Gill: Absolutely. What a, what a wonderful thought for for everyone to go into their day with.

[00:35:53] Whenever you're listening to this, this is a great, a great, a great thought to, to keep in one's mind. Hopefully bring a smile and optimism to everyone. That's wonderful, Helen. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. It has been an absolute pleasure. I am filled with inspiration and motivation after

[00:36:11] Helen Neal: hearing

[00:36:11] James Gill: you speak.

[00:36:12] So thank you, Helen, and I, I guess. Yeah, it's been a pleasure. I, if anyone wants to connect with Helen, we'll link your LinkedIn in the show notes and also the your business itself, hncoms. co. uk is the site. We will link that as well. And yeah. Yeah, I guess I just want to say thank you for joining us.

[00:36:33] And thank you for sharing so much wisdom. And thank you for doing great work. And the world needs more Hellens like you. So thank you, Helen. so much. for

[00:36:44] Helen Neal: having me.

[00:36:45] James Gill: Awesome. And for listening to the show as well. We we love bringing you stories like this. So if you've enjoyed today, please do tell others about it and and let us know.

[00:36:56] So thanks for joining us and see you

[00:36:59] next time.