The EcoSend Podcast

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[00:00:00] Chris W: Welcome to the EcoSend podcast. Be inspired, educated, and entertained by the world's most ambitious leaders putting climate at the top of their agenda.

[00:00:16] James Gill: Hi there, welcome to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. I'm James, your host. Welcome to another episode of the show. And I have a very special guest today.

[00:00:25] I'm very excited to welcome Osprey. Osprey is the founder and executive director of the Women's Earth and Climate Action Network, otherwise known as WECAN, and she's also the author of the award winning book, The Story is in Our Bones, How Worldviews and Climate Justice Can Remake a World in Crisis. One of our first award winning published authors, Osprey, and I am so glad to be talking to you today.

[00:00:54] So, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.

[00:00:57] Osprey Orielle Lake: Thanks so much for having me. I'm really delighted to be here and glad to have this conversation with you. Thank you.

[00:01:03] James Gill: Awesome, Osprey. You are clearly extremely passionate about the planet, about sustainability, about change. Keen to hear a little bit more about what you're up to, but maybe, maybe first, it'd be great to hear about your journey into this world and, and, and how have you ended up on this journey, writing books, leading organizations and doing this incredible work?

[00:01:24] Osprey Orielle Lake: Well, I think like a lot of people, you know, we're very concerned about what is happening with our Earth and our planet. And when we look at the climate crisis and environmental degradation, which are really increasing, they're not decreasing at this time, though there are hopeful signs in different arenas.

[00:01:41] I think it's, it's a really critical time for many of us to roll up our sleeves and do everything we can for our, our current and future generations. And that's what really brings me to this work. A little bit of my background. I was really fortunate to grow up in a very small town in Northern California, along the Mendocino coast.

[00:01:59] And one of the significant things about living in that area are the big old ancient Redwood trees. I don't know if people from the UK know so much about that, but they're, they're the largest trees in the world. They're really magnificent. And they were very important to me in my youth. And I also learned about a lot of the logging operations that were going on to destroy the forests.

[00:02:22] And when I saw my first clear cut forest where they just decimate an entire area, it really shocked me.

[00:02:29] James Gill: And

[00:02:29] Osprey Orielle Lake: in some ways, that began my journey because in my youth, it was, It's very confronting to think, you know, why were we as humans destroying so much beauty? It was hard for me to wrap my mind around that.

[00:02:41] And so, you know, of course, my analysis and how I thought about these things changed over time. But that's one of the first things that really seeded my desire to understand how are humans living on earth? And are we doing this in a healthy and equitable manner?

[00:02:56] James Gill: Yeah. Wow. Well, it's incredible to, to turn something so sad and, and frustrating and perhaps, you know, depressing into so much change that you've, you've been creating.

[00:03:10] And yeah, it's it's, it's fascinating to hear how, how that, that works. Has caused so much for you in your, in your life. I guess it'd be great to understand then. So fast forwarding to now, you run this, this organization called WeCan. Tell us more about that because yeah, I'm sure many people haven't come across this.

[00:03:33] Osprey Orielle Lake: Yeah well, I became very interested in the climate crisis many years ago, but, you know, sort of a teeing off point when the Obama administration came in to office, and there was a big climate talks that happened every year, the annual climate talks where governments all over the world meet through the United Nations to discuss what we're going to do around climate.

[00:03:53] And the year that Obama came into office, many of us had a lot of hopes that there would be a transformation in how governments were discussing climate. And to make a long story short, there was not the bold transformative policies that came out of that negotiation. And it was right about then that I realized, you know, I wanted to stop everything I was doing to get engaged in, in this movement to, to really transform our trajectory around climate.

[00:04:19] And I did a lot of research and I found that there's a, a very instrumental nexus between women's leadership. And climate solutions. That was really an untold story, but very impactful and, and to not have it be vague. I'll just give like one stat and then people can go to our website and we've done all this research, but just one that's really poignant is there's a really powerful study that shows with just a one unit increase in something called the women's political empowerment index, which is an index That's done all over the world to see how much agency women have in their societies.

[00:04:55] Do they have political power? What is their economy? What is their mobility? All these different indicators. And with just a one unit increase, we see an 11. 51 percent decrease in carbon emission reductions. So that's pretty large. It's hard to find anything that will give you something over 10 percent carbon emission reductions.

[00:05:14] And so in essence, giving women agency provides. This, this shift and you know, this is also true at the grassroots level grassroots level, you know, between 40 and 80 percent of all household food production in developing countries is done by women and the relationship between climate change is quite related.

[00:05:33] And so all this to say that. It's just not morally correct that we should have women in leadership roles around climate because it's important that we have egalitarian societies. It's also important to note that we actually can't get to sustainability without them. Yeah. And again, I could go on with these different stats, but from water to food to good policy on climate.

[00:05:55] We see the tremendous role that women are playing. And so our organization was really founded to uplift women around the world both at the grassroots level with projects and programs to the highest levels of government and financial institutions to really influence how we're going to move forward.

[00:06:10] James Gill: That's, that's incredible. Well, I. It's truly eye opening to hear that as well. I would, I would never have imagined that link before you, you sharing that, that, and one incredible organization. So, so that the network, how do you, yeah, tell, tell me more about how in practical terms you're, you're creating change there and, and the kind of impact that's having, like it, it, it sounds like a wonderful thing to exist.

[00:06:37] So what have you seen so far from, from. From since, since starting that.

[00:06:44] Osprey Orielle Lake: Well, it's been exciting. I am very honored to wake up every day and being caged in this work with amazing leaders all over the world. We have impacted climate solutions. We have you know, the big Paris climate agreement.

[00:06:57] When you look at the history of it, you will see women like Cristiana Figueres and many others with her that really pushed the Paris climate agreement through, which is. Critical to the climate negotiations and keeping the 1. 5. Degree guardrail, and many other things that were instituted through that agreement.

[00:07:14] A lot of that was through women's leadership and negotiations and diplomacy by women. And then, you know, in our own organization we, we work with a lot of women at the high level of government, as I said, but also. Very exciting. What is happening with grassroots leaders, indigenous, black and brown women from all over the world, those impacted first and worst by climate change, because I think it's really important to understand that when we're talking about gender, we also need to talk about race because the, the, the inequalities that impact women are universal in the sense of our patriarchal societies, but we can't leave out the fact that women of color, indigenous and black and brown women of color also experienced this.

[00:07:55] A double discrimination, and so it's also really important to listen to their voices. We find that those impacted first and works by harm also often have the key to the solutions because they're the ones facing these crisis and having to navigate them more than anyone else. And so we've put a lot of time into building relationships on the ground and have projects in many different countries.

[00:08:17] And I'll give just one example right now we're engaged. We have been for many years with a really powerful woman leader from the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nima Namadamu. And we have been working on a tree planting project there for many years, reforesting very damaged lands. And at this stage you know, we, We are reforesting an area called the Atome region, and through this reforestation, we're not just healing the land, but also protecting over 1.

[00:08:45] 6 million acres of old growth forest, because as we grow all these trees 25 percent of them are for human use, so people are using them for their food, and their housing, and cooking, and all the things that they need and so it's pulling the populations off of the old growth forest. And forests are absolutely critical to climate mitigation.

[00:09:03] And so the fact that we're able to have these new trees be the trees that people are using, leave the old growth alone, and then also reforesting damaged lands. And it's very comprehensive. It's all done by women. It's bringing the women a lot of leadership and power in their communities. And so it's been a, a really exciting project, you know, everything from that to, to a lot of policy briefs that we put out about, you know, what does a feminist economy look like?

[00:09:28] How do we have care economies? How do we really care for people in this transition that we're in and the energy transition and different types of economic structures. So we're engaged, you know, from the policy level at the climate talks. To economic discussions to actually on the ground work to demonstrate Yeah, what the role is of women in the leadership roles and why it's so successful important.

[00:09:50] James Gill: That's that's incredible. I And so it really spans the full gamut of how involved you could be in, in, in this. That's incredible to hear. And I'm curious, like on the practical level, how, how do you, you know, for you Osprey, like over in the U. S., how do you connect with these projects happening over in, you know, parts of the world where, are you going as part of this?

[00:10:16] Do you, have you ever visited any of these projects yourself? How did, how does The network work like how how did how do these things happen because I'm sure many people listening might be very inspired and want to hear more maybe want to get stuck in and involved if Yeah,

[00:10:34] Osprey Orielle Lake: yeah, I've of course been to a lot of the projects we have projects in Ecuador and Brazil and different regions and I think sometimes it's important to go because of relationship building and also we're We're not a funding organization.

[00:10:47] We are a partnership organization. We have coordinators in these countries who are in our organization. So it's a, it's a different model of building deep long term relationships and really staying with communities all the way through for many, many, many years.

[00:11:00] James Gill: So

[00:11:01] Osprey Orielle Lake: it's a relationship building enterprise and really getting engaged in strategy and, you know, hands on on the ground work.

[00:11:08] So that's, Important, I think to, to understand when we're talking about transformation at the community level and community led solutions, there needs to be deep engagement and deep commitment over a long period of time. Yeah, so that's a very important component and we operate in concentric circles for maybe a simpler way to, to, to view a model where we have our own staff.

[00:11:31] That is a very small team that, that works on a weekly basis, doing all the, all the floor mopping and all the dishes and all those sorts of things that goes on in an organization and, and beautiful organizing work. And then then we have these coordinators in different countries in the world where we work on a very close, intimate basis and, and are involved on a regular basis with all the daily work that goes on and the monitoring strategy and fundraising and all of that.

[00:11:58] And then we have also this. Very large network that is the larger we can network that involves leaders and women and individuals from, you know, at least over 60 countries at this point, or we'll do, you know, collective work. So it, it's very I would say a horizontal versus a pyramidal structure, which is all part of the transformation.

[00:12:19] We're in. It's like, how do we have leadership that really allows the grassroots and communities to lead from the bottom up instead of the top down? And this is the whole change. That we're in when we look at environmental degradation and the climate crisis. It didn't, it didn't just happen. It has come out of systems of supremacy, out of hierarchies, out of colonization, out of these systems of racism and our economic frameworks that really benefit the wealthy elite.

[00:12:48] And so how do we actually. Dismantle those systems and transform them into something else. So in our organization, we're certainly not perfect. We're in our own learning curve, but you know, how do we also create these organizations and leadership roles that change how we go about doing things? And so this is why we work so much from the grassroots and from the community level up.

[00:13:10] But at the same time, we can't pretend we're in this new framework. We're building it. So it's critical that we also have a lot of engagement with government leaders and financial institution leaders so that we can collectively. Find our way and navigate our way through this middle ground where we can really have everyone benefit because right now, you know, we're not all facing the same challenges equally, not by a long shot.

[00:13:34] And so we really have to transform our systems and that's the challenge. Really at the heart of WeCan is, is systems change and how do we actually have a systemic change so that we can have a healthy and just world for everyone.

[00:13:46] James Gill: Yeah, wow, that is, that is incredible. It's incredible how multifaceted the impact of the organization is.

[00:13:54] It's, you know, it's not just flying in, plants and trees fly out. It's, it's, You know, you're transforming the inclusiveness, the diversity, the, the cooperation on the ground and the fundamental systems that play within the organization itself and, and the sustainability side of and regenerative side of, of reforestation and like, like all of these things happening in combination.

[00:14:25] Do you ever feel like. It's. Where to start? Where, like, how, how do you, how do you combine all of these things in your head, Osprey, to, you know, how do you approach a project when you're trying to achieve so much change? It must be incredibly daunting.

[00:14:42] Osprey Orielle Lake: Well, I think about it every day. It's a, it's a it's a mapping process every day because.

[00:14:48] It is, you know, and again, it's, it's a learning curve. Every time we take on a project, you know, how to look at it holistically, how to ensure that we have like listening circles with the community. We're working on a project right now where we are looking to reforest an area in Brazil with indigenous women leaders.

[00:15:04] And it's a very long process of listening to the women in the community, what and how they see what needs to happen. We're aware. At a technical level at a scientific level, this one region we're looking at it's a very key area to reforest of the Brazilian Amazon because it's on the west coast of, or the western end of, of Brazil.

[00:15:26] And what happens is because of the winds that come through, a lot of that deforestation is causing the winds to come through and ruin a lot of topsoil as we go eastward into the Amazon. And so by reforesting this one area, we'll have a huge positive impact. On the rest of the Amazon by having like one just reforesting the area, but also creating this a forest barrier that used to be there to protect the top soils.

[00:15:50] But we can't just go in and just start planting trees on our community. We have not lived there. People have been impacted by colonization and all kinds of hardships. So it's a deep process of being in listening circles. What does the community want? How do the women want to do this? Talking to the leadership, lots of consultation and, you know, co creating a way to move forward.

[00:16:14] And also it's not just about planting the trees. They also want to ensure that their worldviews and ideas about living with nature and harmony that conveyed, because, you know, let's just say Tomorrow, I could wave a magic wand, which I wish I could and, and the climate crisis, I would do that, but it still actually would not change environmental degradation or the, you know, the systems of patriarchy and colonization, racism and capitalism that exists that have generated these problems.

[00:16:44] And so while we are dealing with immediate needs, which we should do. And put out immediate fires because people are in harm's way and we're destroying the earth. We need to act immediately. I believe we also need to have this second attention on the systems themselves as you and I are talking about, because ultimately the systems have to change that brought us into these interlocking crises, or we're just running around putting out fires and that won't work.

[00:17:09] We have to do both at the same time.

[00:17:11] James Gill: Yeah. That's such a good point, like, even, even with your magic wand solving so many problems, we'd still be left with many, many problems that would just continue in the same way, right? Yeah, it's, yeah, that's quite a profound thought, isn't it? I I, I'm, I'm very keen to hear more about the systems change as well, so, and I suspect Maybe, I know we talked about you being an award winning author, Osprey.

[00:17:42] So your book has come out and congratulations on that. I, I could only dream of somehow managing to write a book. I, I, anyone who can write a book is just an absolute hero in my eyes. So congratulations on releasing your book. And I, I would love to, to hear more about, about what it's about and, and yeah, to, if you could give a little bit of a.

[00:18:06] An intro to, to the audience about, about it and. Yeah, it'd be great to unpack a lot more about about what's in there.

[00:18:14] Osprey Orielle Lake: Well, thank you. Thank you so much. The book is called the story is in our bones and the subtitle is how world views And climate justice can remake a world in crisis and The title says a lot and it's very much a discussion like we're having today.

[00:18:30] I really wrote the book to open up conversation with my world family, our global community about systems change. And and so there's a lot of stories about the Women's Earth and Climate Action Network and projects we've done. But it's also a very deep dive because I wanted to go upstream. And have a conversation about worldviews and how do we actually create a modern society in which we are creating so much destruction and you know, people are working harder than ever and still trying to put food on the table how we are creating these systems that we are destroying the planet that sustains us.

[00:19:10] And it's, it's an approach that has us both. Get into a deep inquiry about our assumptions about life, our assumptions about what's important and not what's meaningful and what's not meaningful. And how did all this come about? Because I find sort of like if you are not feeling well and you go to the doctor, they don't just start giving you pills and things.

[00:19:31] They have to, hopefully not you know, they will ask you, you know, where did this illness originate from? And you go through a whole series of diagnoses. to actually get to the root cause to then treat. And I would say the book really takes on that map making, if you will, of what are the root causes of these interlocking crises?

[00:19:50] How did we get here so that we can really identify that? And when we identify that, then I think we'll be able to much more deeply address those root causes and have a way forward. That that really is healthy and equitable for the planet and for all of our communities. And so it addresses these issues.

[00:20:09] But also there's a lot of storytelling and you know, a weaving of politics and mythology and culture and literature, because also I find how we deliver this information really matters. And that

[00:20:22] James Gill: narrative

[00:20:23] Osprey Orielle Lake: really counts because it's definitely not a dry climate book by a long shot. You know, there's a memoir We, we also need to activate different parts of ourselves to engage.

[00:20:33] These are really complex topics and they're also confronting. I mean, it's an existential question and people don't want to think about that. And so how do we actually create narratives and storytelling and approaches that allow us to find meaning, but also in a way that we can digest it and sit with it and approach it for ourselves in a way that you know, it's going to be uncomfortable.

[00:20:58] I'm not gonna lie. It's uncomfortable topics, but in a way where it also feels good because you know, you're on a healing journey or you're on a journey of learning where you can take action. And so ultimately the book is very hopeful about what we can do with a lot of, you know, solutions and ideas, but you know, not stepping over the fact that first we have to understand what causes.

[00:21:20] James Gill: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's incredible. I, my understanding and I, I have to admit, I haven't yet had a chance to read the book Osprey, but my understanding and from reading some of the fantastic reviews is that it's not necessarily a book that is going to give you all the answers. There's no book out there that's going to give you all the answers, but it really opens your mind to ways of thinking that will, will perhaps empower many, many people to, to make a lot of change both in their own lives and.

[00:21:47] In their own communities in their own in their own areas. And I think that's incredibly powerful. And also what you were saying there about how different people sort of I guess how we do communicate about the challenges we have with climate. It's Something that I think a lot of people feel kind of ashamed, or they're sort of shamed into feeling bad about the way the climate is, but to give people hope and aspiration and inspire people, I think is a, is is a much more promising way to make change.

[00:22:25] I'm, I'm very excited to, to dig in. Is there any, any sort of specific parts of the book where you're most you often find yourself? Sharing, sharing snippets or any, any key areas where you're particularly proud of the from the

[00:22:41] Osprey Orielle Lake: gosh, I never asked that question. Let's see.

[00:22:44] James Gill: It's hard to give it the 1.

[00:22:47] Osprey Orielle Lake: I would, I would just say that, I think that there's parts of the book that allow us to you know, deal with these topics we've been discussing. So I won't mention them again, but just to bring up a new point, also how to connect with nature in different ways, because I think also It's not the solution.

[00:23:05] And I think you said it really well. I mean, there aren't the solutions. There's a lot of different mosaics of solutions that in an ecosystem might get us through the tiny keyhole that we need to get through right now, a habitable world so there's a lot of different ways of looking at it. But I think also just in terms of our well being, I don't think we can underestimate our relationship with the natural world, walking in the forest, having a garden you know, walking along the ocean, looking at the night sky.

[00:23:37] All of these things can seem really frivolous or like something maybe you do on your vacation or on a weekend which I'm glad people do. But I also think that this deep feeling of orphanage. From the living world from the web of life has been incredibly destructive to us as a species and how do we really weave?

[00:23:55] Even in our modern societies even living in cities, you know, how do we reapproach that? We're part of this living? natural world this beautiful planet and and make that Normalized if you will be part of our conversation is something that's important and not something you do on the side But something that actually is critical to being a human being but also how we decide things in our policy how we decide Economics how we decide things if we're not connected to nature.

[00:24:24] It's really hard to speak for nature It's really hard to make decisions that are balanced with nature if we Are in feeling, even though it's not true that we are divorced from nature are separate from nature. And so I think this point cannot be stressed enough that we have a lot of work to do. Most of us who live in urban environments to reconnect with the natural world so that we can maintain balance and also understand a worldview in which we're living part of an animate Living cosmology, if you will, and how do we actually relate to the fact that we're on this living planet?

[00:24:57] And how does that affect us on a personal basis a political basis and everything we do and how we act?

[00:25:04] James Gill: Gosh, yeah, that, that is so true. It's, it's, everything is so interconnected, isn't it? When I, I know there's various studies, and I just know from my own personal experience, being in nature more, it, it does connect you with the planet we're on, but it, it also has this very real impact on yourself as well, and your own ways of thinking, your own calmness, I've noticed it a lot living in London and, you know, there are parts of London you go to where there's literally nothing living in sight.

[00:25:41] There's just concrete, glass, steel, you know, blocks and, and then you can go elsewhere in London and you can be surrounded by trees and greenery and grass. And I, I know which of those environments I, better for my mind, but also better, better for us to spend a lot more time thinking about me. The consequences of that, I think for all of us are, are not to be underestimated.

[00:26:08] I agree

[00:26:09] Osprey Orielle Lake: more.

[00:26:10] James Gill: Yeah. I I, I feel like this time is flying by us, but I just wanted to make sure before we get to the end of the show, also heard from you about climate week in New York, because that's something you're. You're going to very soon, and I have to admit I, I wasn't aware that this was such a big thing.

[00:26:29] So across the pond. I've heard of it, but please do tell me more about about Climate Week and why it's so important.

[00:26:38] Osprey Orielle Lake: Yeah, every year in New York in September, there's the United Nations General Assembly, which happens where all the governments meet and have their general assembly for the year.

[00:26:48] But it's also utilized as a moment to prepare for the annual climate talks, which always happen in the end of the year, either November or December. And so it's a really key moment for. Climate discussions and so climate, we came about and governments are their private sectors. Their non governmental organizations are their advocates everyone and there's the whole city is a light with activities that no one could possibly keep track of all of them.

[00:27:14] It's grown considerably over the years. But it's an important time also for a lot of us who, who do advocacy work to really. Make clear what our calls to action are for governments at the upcoming climate negotiations. At weekend, we'll be hosting several events. 1 of them is called women ending the era of fossil fuels and implementing solutions.

[00:27:36] So talking about actually, how do we phase out the fossil fuels, which is a key goal right now. Can't stop the climate crisis without stopping the source, which are fossil fuels. But also how do we implement solutions. We'll also be having a discussion on global economies and we will also be commenting on something that's happening unique to this year, which is there's the summit of the future, which the United Nations is calling for as part of the U.

[00:28:01] N. General Assembly. And just to note the struggles that go on when the summit of the future was first outlined with their agenda. Fossil fuels were not even on the agenda as a discussion. And so a lot of different countries different leaders from the world and also a lot of us in civil society pushed back and said, you have got to put fossil fuels on the agenda.

[00:28:23] How can you talk about the future without talking about fossil fuels and what we're going to do about them? And so, you know, these are the kinds of things where we can have interventions and influence and push governments to, to work harder and faster to move on the climate crisis and, and other huge problems that the world faces.

[00:28:40] So, all of these discussions will be going on a climate week and, and you know, government leaders will be making statements. And yeah, as I say, it's a time to sort of everybody. Stake their ground for the coming up negotiations. So we're getting ready for that. And we'll be bringing a lot of indigenous women leaders to speak for themselves.

[00:29:00] One of the big climate talks that's coming up, not this year in Azerbaijan, but next year in Brazil is a really pivotal moment. So really excited to see indigenous women leaders from Brazil coming and sharing their concerns and their plans and their agendas. So I'm, I'm looking forward to it. It will be a very busy week.

[00:29:18] And I know there'll be a lot of announcements that come out and people can, can learn what happened through the news cycles. But I wish people were paying a lot more attention to what's happening with climate because our window is getting very small and, and I'd like to think about hope.

[00:29:33] In a sentence that was shared with me, which is hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled up

[00:29:40] James Gill: and

[00:29:41] Osprey Orielle Lake: that would be, you know, sort of my final note around around climate week. And thinking about our discussion is like, if we're going to have hope for the future. We all have to engage and that's what I really want to encourage people to do is like, there's so much that needs to be done and it can start at the simplest level of what happens in your own home and recycling that sort of thing.

[00:30:01] But also meeting others who are engaged and doing the things that you're most passionate about always gives you the most energy and to focus there. But the main thing is, if we all do something, then there really is hope. If we're on the sidelines, that really decreases our chances. So to me, hope is a verb with its leaves rolled up.

[00:30:22] James Gill: I love that. What a, what a wonderful quote to, to finish on. Thank you, Osprey. I I, I think it's been a wonderful, wonderful discussion. I'm sure many people listening and watching are coming away from this feeling inspired, maybe hopeful, I hope and hopefully wanting to take some action themselves.

[00:30:42] Thank you. We will make sure we link to a bunch of things in the show notes, including of course your book. And that title again is The Story Is In Our Bones. And we'll link to that in the show notes, of course. Osprey, if people want to find you online, your website, I assume is the best, best place, is that right?

[00:31:02] Osprey Orielle Lake: Yes, it's www. wecaninternational. org

[00:31:06] James Gill: Amazing, amazing. So we'll make sure we link to all of those in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining me on the show today.

[00:31:13] Osprey Orielle Lake: Thank you so much. It's been really a delight talking with you. Thanks so much.

[00:31:17] James Gill: Thank you, Osprey. And thank you everybody for, for listening or watching.

[00:31:20] If you've enjoyed today's show, please do let us know and share it with as many people as you can. We really, it would just be so wonderful for Osprey's story and ideas to be spread far and wide. So thank you for watching and listening and we'll catch you next time.