The EcoSend Podcast

James Gill: 00:14

Hi there. Welcome back to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. I'm your host James, and I'm thrilled to have another amazing show for you today. Today, I am speaking with Sophie Zhenkevich, and I'm so excited for today's show because this is gonna be a topic, well, that I know very little about. All I know is I like going on holiday.

James Gill: 00:36

I think we all like going on holiday. Usually, going on holiday involves flying, and Sophie is changing the world of aviation for the better. Sophie is the cofounder of carbon neutral fuels, which might be an indication of Sophie's impact on our holidays. Sophie, I'm thrilled to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 00:56

Hey, James. I'm really good. Lovely to be here.

James Gill: 00:59

Amazing. It's great to have you on the show. I'm so excited to tuck tuck into this this topic. I know you got a background in all things chemistry, all things subjects that I have very, very little expertise on. So I'm gonna asking you some probably the most basic questions you've been asked all year.

James Gill: 01:15

But Brilliant. I I'm so interested to to dive into this. So maybe, Sofia, it'd be great, in your own words, like, what are you working on at the moment? What is what is carbon neutral fuels?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 01:29

Sure thing. And, yes, that's a big question. So carbon neutral fuels, we are decarbonizing aviation. And what that means is we felt like we had something to offer the aviation industry and have a real impact on climate change. And what we wanted to do was decarbonize the fuel itself.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 01:46

So we essentially take atmospheric carbon dioxide and waste carbon dioxide, and we combine that with clean hydrogen or using renewable low carbon electricity. And then we ultimately output sustainable aviation fuel. So it means that when you fly to those lovely destinations on your holiday, you can do it guilt free and feeling good about the the impact you're having on climate change.

James Gill: 02:10

That sounds amazing. No. That doesn't just sound amazing. That sounds almost too good to be true. Like this, we all think of air travel as being, like, one of the worst things, you know, individually that we we do in terms of our environmental impact.

James Gill: 02:25

So genuinely, this sounds too good to be true. I'm I'm I'm amazed that this is even possible. So I'm curious, maybe before we dive too much more into carbon neutral fuels, just understand how the heck have you ended up doing this? How have you got to a point where you're tackling such a mega mega challenge?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 02:48

Sure. Yes. And just on the first point, it's not necessarily even just your travel emissions. It's all of the logistics and the transport and the cargo. When you order that thing on Amazon, you know, it most likely is being being flown So, it's it's a bigger problem than sometimes we even appreciate.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 03:06

Yeah. And I I actually met my co founder Alistair Alistair Lumsden at COP26, which was really So that was the conference of the parties. And it's essentially the world's largest climate change conference, and it happens every year in a different location. And in 2021, it was in Glasgow.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 03:26

And

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 03:27

if you remember, that was in the COVID times and it was a real it was everywhere. It was all on the news. Everyone was involved in it. And it was super exciting because the previous year, I and a bunch of other enthusiastic early career individuals in the nuclear industry were going, how can we, as as a team, contribute to climate change and at solving those issues. And so we, as part of the Young Generation Network, which is the membership organization for early career individuals in the nuclear industry, set up a delivery team.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 03:59

And we were like, right. Let's all get together and decide what we're gonna do. And we basically spent fifteen months planning a bunch of activities that would happen at COP26 and show nuclear's role in the climate emergency and how it could play a positive part of that. And we did amazing stuff, James. It was so cool.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 04:20

We did a flash mob. One of our team

James Gill: 04:22

Oh, really?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 04:23

Yeah. It was so cool. One of our team, Vicky, she wrote a song to Bonnie Tyler's I Need a Hero, and we changed it to We Need Net Zero, And it was awesome. You can find it somewhere on YouTube.

James Gill: 04:34

It's great. Okay. We definitely gotta

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 04:36

find that out and put that in a bit.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 04:38

And, yeah, and it was just such a phenomenal experience of seeing what young people can do when we get together and we think creatively about solving these challenges. And I was really lucky to to meet Alistair at COP26. And I remember we went for a dinner and there was a whole group of us, big long table, And we were chatting about business and about having an impact and all of this sort of thing. And he'd sold his his business a few months previously and so was looking for the next challenge. And that was in the November.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 05:12

And the following summer, got a message out the blue saying, hey, I've got this idea. Do you wanna give it a go? And that really genuinely was the origin story of CNS. So it really came from an idea that we've just then ran with.

James Gill: 05:27

So in kind of right time, right place, but also

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 05:30

%.

James Gill: 05:31

A lot of hard work getting to that point. I mean, no one just lands in the world of nuclear energy without doing quite a lot of hard work as well, I'm sure.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 05:40

That's true. I will credit the the degree in chemistry, for sure, for part of that.

James Gill: 05:47

That's incredible. And so was there I mean, I'm I always ask people this as well. Like, for you yourself, Sophie, was there any specific moment that made you even more passionate about climate change itself? Like, you know, for some people, it's some sort of life event realization. Was there anything like that?

James Gill: 06:09

Was it just something you kind of have have always cared about?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 06:14

It is certainly something I've always been conscious of. And I suppose I've cared about it in varying degrees as you grow up. I don't know if you ever had those CGP revision books when you

James Gill: 06:27

were a Yes.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 06:28

I did have them.

James Gill: 06:29

They were my favorite. They were not Everyone's favorite. I don't think I'd have passed a single exam without them.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 06:34

No. No. When you turned to the back and you had the little quote on the back. Yeah. It's amazing.

James Gill: 06:41

We'll have to link that in the show notes as well, just for anyone who is not aware of the wonder of a CGPA textbook. And

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 06:49

I feel like you're always conscious of those things as you pass through exams and you you grow up. So I think climate change is always a thing. But it was actually an event or a conversation, in fact, that happened at COP with one of the other members. A lovely, wonderful, passionate woman called Alice. And she grew up in Brazil and she was talking about how representation of women in the climate emergency is actually very underrepresented from in in her communities.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 07:21

And it was such a moment of, actually, I care about it in my little bubble, but I have to care about it if a larger bubble, you know. And it's so important that we open our eyes and we recognize that it's not we're not just doing it for us. And it was such a pivotal moment of, hey, if you can think big, then big might actually happen.

James Gill: 07:45

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so that's so inspiring. Like, you know, I I think we're we're so used to I don't know. I think in my world, like, I'm so used to hearing a lot of big tech companies in Silicon Valley thinking big and, you know, how do we build the biggest social network or whatever.

James Gill: 08:05

And to hear, you know, people thinking like that in the world of climate and and even more so, like, in The UK, I think it's actually it's all too rare that I hear that kind of that kind of message. It's very inspiring to hear that as yeah. Just on so many levels. I love it. I love it.

James Gill: 08:25

I

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 08:25

Well, you've got a big mission yourself. I mean,

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 08:27

I think they're all around. Just gotta find Yeah.

James Gill: 08:31

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta find them. That's it.

James Gill: 08:33

That's it. I I'm keen to dig in then a little bit on on the problem that you're solving because as you said, there's a lot a lot of I guess there's a lot of planes out there doing a lot of different things. A lot of the world moves around via via planes. So, like, how big is this problem? Like, what is its contribution to to climate change in in some terms?

James Gill: 09:00

And, yeah, let's maybe start there before we then dig into, like Sure. How the heck you're solving it.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 09:08

So, yes, aviation contributes between 24% of global emissions. So it is is a considerable one. And some people might say, well, actually, that's quite a small percentage. But as our population increases and as our connectivity increases, that will only ever increase. So it's very important that we catch it at this point and we do something referenced traveling from, you know, Heathrow to London to New York, for instance, typically emits two tons of CO2 of carbon dioxide equivalents.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 09:45

And the average person's equivalents in The UK is typically about 5.4 tons of CO two per year. So if you think one trip is a huge percentage of that allowable, if still too high amount of CO two. So if you're traveling for business a couple of times a year or, you know, you've got family coming to visit you or you're going on a couple of holidays, which is all totally amazing things and things that we should be doing because they're great fun and they're important and it's great to feel connected. But we have to think about, well, actually that one trip is such a big impact. So why wouldn't we try and tackle the fuel and the causes for that?

James Gill: 10:30

Yeah. That's I I don't wanna geek out too much on numbers, but I also just wanna make sure I understand it, Sophie. Because I think sometimes in the world of climate, like, there's so many numbers banded around. When you say or when anyone says, like, a plane trip return is what were you saying? Two tons.

James Gill: 10:49

Yeah. Is that is that, like, the whole plane? Or is that the plane divided up by the number of passengers, and that's my contribution there. I'm curious, like, how how do those numbers even get calculated? Because I I was just I was just wanted to double check that.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 11:08

That no. That's a really good point. There's a great website, which we can maybe link in the footnotes Yeah. Of this episode. Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 11:14

And that calculates your emissions traveled. So my understanding is that that is for your personal emission set.

James Gill: 11:23

Right.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 11:24

That's a third of what you are contributing. And so, yeah, if you imagine a couple hundred seats on a plane, it's an awful lot of emissions.

James Gill: 11:32

Yeah. So the actual plane is not just a few ton not just

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 11:37

a few

James Gill: 11:37

tons, it's seriously large amount per flight.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 11:41

It is. It is. And that's because the fuel that the plane is flying on, and there are other factors that influence it. But predominantly, the fuel that it's flying on is kerosene. And kerosene is a long chain hydrocarbon, and the hydrocarbons come from dinosaurs plus time,

James Gill: 11:57

essentially. Dinosaurs plus time. That's the that's the title of this show. That's for sure.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 12:03

But that's the the sort of crux of the fuel. So if you're if you're digging up embedded carbon as a liquid fuel and then burning it, that's thousands, millions of years old. And that's why it's so important that we can carry on and we can get this message across. You can carry on flying and you can carry on living the life because we've got the technology now to be able to replace that fuel in a sustainable way.

James Gill: 12:30

Yeah. I that's such a that touches on, I think, such a good point on this whole topic, which is because I think, you know, a lot of people sort of, again, it's one these challenges whenever you talk about climate, like, there's so many possible solutions of different degrees of complexity to certain things. Think a lot of people sort of hear aviation contributes two to 4% of emissions. Well, flying is bad.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 12:59

And actually,

James Gill: 13:02

what you're proposing is, no, it's not flying that is the bad thing. Like, inherently, we could fly, you know, birds fly around. Don't use they don't they don't use kerosene. So, like, it's it's not the flying itself. We don't have to stop flying.

James Gill: 13:19

We've gotta sort out why flying is bad for the climate, and a big part of that is the fuel. And Yes. And that's what you're saying, rather than we all need to learn to sail, which, you know, not that that would be a terrible thing.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 13:32

Oh, yeah. Also a

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 13:33

good pastime.

James Gill: 13:34

Look But it might take a little bit longer to get to, you know, New York.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 13:40

Exactly that. I really strongly believe that we have the technologies available to us. It's a case of lining everything up in terms of regulation, and in terms of price, and in terms of scaling and supply chains and all of those things. And that takes time and with whilst I'm really optimistic, I don't think we're quite there yet in terms of, you know, being the best thing that we can be as an industry. But I'm really confident that we will get there because there are so many clever people working on working on this.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 14:14

And Yeah. The incentives in terms of governments, not just in The UK, we have this thing called the SAF mandate. In Europe, they've got the European mandate, and it it really is a global incentive to encourage the the use of sustainable aviation fuel. So it's coming from governments. Airlines really want it.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 14:31

You'll see if you just search sort of offtake agreements from airlines, there's a bunch of them that come up in the news with airlines going, look, we really want to use this sustainable fuel. And the fuel supply is saying, hey. Yeah. We'd love it. There's just not currently the supply available.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 14:46

So everyone's really keen. I think it might just take a bit more time to get there.

James Gill: 14:52

Yeah. So I I I'm so intrigued to hear more about that this part of the journey then because clearly, we've got this massive massive problem, and it sounds like you're actually really quite far along in this journey of solving the the actual how we create this fuel to to to solve this. So I'm curious. You mentioned a lot of big words that are science y, and I'm not even gonna try and repeat them. All I know is you've done a lot of science.

James Gill: 15:24

So it sounds like though there's a lot of non science that is actually now the big barrier or or maybe I'm oversimplifying. I'm definitely oversimplifying that. No. Why? Tell me about the the other challenges you're facing then of of of trying to go from where we are today, which is I assume basically no planes, or basic almost all planes flying with kerosene to a wonderful world where they're using Sure.

James Gill: 15:53

Carbon neutral fields.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 15:54

That's the dream. That's the dream. Yeah. So and I think, firstly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making it simple, actually. I mean, this really I think where a lot of science communications falls down is that we do use a lot of long and we do try and make it this austere thing.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 16:12

And obviously, that's not everyone, but yeah, it can sometimes, it is just, hey, we take CO two and we make fuel, and that's okay.

James Gill: 16:19

So, yeah, sometimes a a moron like me needs

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 16:21

to actually understand anyway.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 16:23

I would never use that word. Never. But in terms of other challenges, yeah, so you mentioned that regulation is is a big thing. And up until now, well, actually, it came into force in The UK on the 01/01/2025. So, we're two months in to this regulation being law, actually.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 16:43

And it states that from now, there are increasing percentages of sustainable fuel that need to be used. And the sort of big target that the industry is currently working towards is 10% SAF, and SAF is it sustainable aviation fuel. So 10% SAF by 02/1930. And we're currently hovering at about half a percent in terms of supply. So, we've started.

James Gill: 17:08

Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 17:08

We haven't quite got there just yet. Within that, there's different types of SAF that you can have. So, you can have biofuel SAF, for instance, which is where you take crops and you take organic matter and you can create fuel. You can take power to liquid SAF, which is what we do. And that's using electricity to create your sustainable fuel out the other side.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 17:30

And that waste CO2 is part of that. So that is a big hurdle actually and a big challenge that has recently been overcome in terms of we've got that legislation now and Europe and the rest of the world have got similar. But then the next biggest challenge is financing the production of these and the construction of these facilities. They are big, big, big projects. And for a startup like us, that's gonna be a really interesting challenge when we get there because we don't have a balance sheet that we can refer to or a parent organization that will cover the cost.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 18:04

So we're having to think quite laterally about how we go out and build these things. But in terms of other companies, you take this thing called which is financial investment decision. And it essentially is like the go no go point. So, you've done all your design work and you've got all your list of equipment. You've got your heads of terms agreed with your site.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 18:27

Everything's ready to go. And then it's essentially, are we actually gonna do this project? And a lot of the industry has is getting slash has got to that point. But because there aren't the billions of pounds available to actually build these facilities, it's kinda stagnated a bit. So funding is a real challenge.

James Gill: 18:46

That is that is I I'm also just trying to imagine because this is so far from my, like, zone of expertise. I I'm just trying to imagine a facility like this because I I don't spend my days actually walking around airline fuel.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 19:02

You're joking.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 19:03

I thought everyone did that. What?

James Gill: 19:06

What like, what are we talking like, where where does one build one of these? And, like, what does it look like? Is it we I mean, maybe, like, a massive factory. I I don't know. What what do you what do you need to build?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 19:16

That's such a lovely question. Yeah. I so if you imagine, when you start out construction, you're gonna have a big, big, big field. We're talking tens of acres

James Gill: 19:27

worth of Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 19:28

So big field. And you have to have that field industrially zoned, which essentially means that you can build a thing on it. So you can't just go and build this in the middle of Manchester, for instance. It has to be in a specific location. And because you're dealing with fuels, there is a bunch of safety elements that need to be considered as part of that.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 19:52

Which is all fine and something that we've, as a as a sector, have been doing for tens of hundreds of years, probably. So, yeah, very much okay with that. But then, actual facility wise, yeah, we've you'll have a substation, which is where your electricity connection comes into, and that will power your whole facility. You'll likely have a bunch of columns, which can be sort of 20 to 40 meters high sometimes. And that's where your fractionation of the fuel will happen.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 20:24

So, where you actually decide what you're gonna output as a product. You have we've got, for instance, ours, direct air capture units, which if you imagine three forty foot shipping containers stacked on one another. Yeah. And then at the top, there's a bunch of fans that were around, and they suck in the air. And then that's where you get your c o two, part of your c o two from.

James Gill: 20:47

Got it.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 20:47

So, yeah. I mean, if you head over to our LinkedIn, actually, we've got a photo of what our facility will look like. Oh, amazing. So, yeah. That that would be the best place to go.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 20:57

But, yeah. Think big construction.

James Gill: 21:00

Yeah. So you've got the plants.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 21:02

We do.

James Gill: 21:03

Do. So I if I'm imagining this as an episode of Grand Designs, we're right at the start. Got Kevin asking if this is a good idea.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 21:12

Yeah. He's raising his eyebrows at the budget. Absolutely.

James Gill: 21:16

And you think this will cost £500?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 21:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 21:21

That's exactly it. So we we used the government. We we if we use the government, what I mean to say is we won a government grant help us with the designs of this facility.

James Gill: 21:32

That's good to hear.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 21:33

I hear you. Yeah. So it's we are very much at the beginning of that journey. We work with an amazing engineering firm called IO Consulting. And they have supported us in and led on the design work for facility, and it essentially means talking to a bunch of vendors and saying, you can go into so much detail, James.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 21:50

Honestly, it'll be like Yeah. How I'm using a three mil diameter pipe. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm using a four. What are we gonna do about that?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 21:57

And then you have a big chat about it,

James Gill: 21:59

and This feels like a much bigger deal than when

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 22:01

someone says we'll fit. Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 22:04

%. Hundred %. So, yeah, we are currently in that design phase. But we do have preliminary drawings of what it all be. And I remember, actually, a few months ago, we got given the first layout design drawing.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 22:18

And you open this PDF and it's just a bunch of rectangles and circles on a on an a four piece of paper. And I got so excited, honestly. It was the biggest day going, oh my gosh. That's our rectangle. What?

James Gill: 22:31

That's amazing. So, yeah, it sounds like things are getting more and more real. So so you've got and and, like, how does the timeline look? You're am I right to say you're aiming for 2030? Is that right?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 22:47

That's right.

James Gill: 22:48

To be done? Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 22:49

Yes. Yeah. So we have the final few design stages to go through, and then we will aim to take that final investment decision that I mentioned previously. We'll aim to take that within the next two or three years, and then it will be constructing the thing. Then Goodness.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 23:10

My goal is that in the twenty thirties, the whoever the prime minister is is flying on our fuel.

James Gill: 23:17

Wow. Oh, that would be amazing.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 23:19

Yeah. Truly. That's

James Gill: 23:22

incredible. This is so so exciting. So what are you look so at the moment then, Sophie, what do you need? You're you're doing I mean, looking to the future, clearly, there's there's loads you've got a long to do list. Yes.

James Gill: 23:39

Lots of things to achieve. You're doing a fundraising campaign at the moment. Is that right?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 23:46

You're doing it

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 23:47

for a yeah. Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 23:48

Yes. We are. So we have launched a a crowdfund. Yeah. And that's hosted on Crowdcube.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 23:55

If you

James Gill: 23:55

Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 23:56

Head over to that website, it might we might still be live by the time

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 23:59

this goes Yeah.

James Gill: 24:00

We will definitely link to that in

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 24:02

the Great. Thank you.

James Gill: 24:02

Of Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 24:03

Yeah. So that and that's really exciting, actually, because it's we are happy to be challenged. But as far as I'm aware, we are the only SAF company that has ever listed their organization publicly. It's a great opportunity for everybody to get involved. Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 24:21

Really, yes. Well, support this mission, but also have a stake in what the future of fuel is gonna be. So that's currently live. And that's a very it's a big milestone for us. We started out two years ago going, wow, wouldn't be really cool to do a crowdfund in the future?

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 24:37

And then a couple of months ago, thought, should we just do it? And we'll see what happens.

James Gill: 24:42

And Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 24:42

It's the response has been really awesome. And I I'm just really thrilled that we get to operate as a startup a little bit differently to traditional companies actually and go, do you know what? We are gonna do this cool thing and we are gonna invite everyone in and see where we get to. So is

James Gill: 24:59

so this is very exciting. I I mean, I'm sure many people listening to the podcast, they're always keen to hear about all the cool stuff people are doing in the world of sustainability and environment climate. So rarely is there an opportunity to sort of be financially involved. And and I guess, you know, I I by the way, this is no financial advice. I'm no investment adviser.

James Gill: 25:25

But, like, I I think that's such a wonderful thing because so much of the time, we do like, there needs to be more money going into some of these projects. There's I mean, I look at the things I've backed on Crowdcube. Think I've backed a total of two things. One was a startup bank and one was a burrito chain. So I'm hoping this

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 25:43

That's a diverse portfolio, James.

James Gill: 25:44

Yeah. It's very, very diverse. But I think this one might have a little bit more meaning, you know. So I'm I'm very I'm very excited to go check it out. And I am yeah.

James Gill: 25:57

I'm wishing you the very best on on this this crowdfunding because I've heard from a lot of people it's it's not the easiest thing to do, but I'm sure I'm sure there's a lot of people that are I hope there's a lot of people lining up very keen to to support what you're doing.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 26:10

Well, we certainly have had a good response, and it's we, Alistair and I, really take seriously the culture that we're trying to create at CNF as well, and that extends to everyone that supports us. We feel like it's such a responsibility, actually. Firstly, the bigger picture of being part of the solution to climate change, but also it's a responsibility to create that ethos of, yes, we can do it, and yes, we're gonna do the right thing. Yeah. We've really tried to instill that.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 26:39

So I hope that that's a message that your listeners and that everyone can get on board with.

James Gill: 26:44

Yeah. 100%. I the only other thing I'd say on this is also I think there's something wonderful when you when you make a commitment like doing something like this this crowdfunding where you you involve a lot more people and it it almost pushes transparency as a really key thing from early days. And I think that's also just from everything I've sort of seen. It's like anything in the world of climate and sustainability, like, trust comes from that transparency.

James Gill: 27:11

And and I think that that perhaps is also a really big deal here.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:15

Yes. Yeah. Oh, it absolutely is. Firstly, just haven't got the headspace to be keeping secrets. Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:24

Yeah. I just don't know how people do it.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:26

It's exhausting.

James Gill: 27:28

It's a lot easier to just tell the truth.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:30

It is.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:31

It is. And, yeah, I totally agree. I I just feel like so my I used to work for a wonderful company, which again, would encourage everyone to go and look up called Better Not Stop, run by the phenomenal Hannah Cox. Yes.

James Gill: 27:45

Yes. We love Hannah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:46

We do love Hannah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:47

She's great. And

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:49

I feel like I really learned that from her actually, just the idea that you Doing your best is always good enough.

James Gill: 27:58

Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 27:58

That's all you can do and that's all you can offer. And if you create that environment for people that you engage with, that will just be enough. And and I think you're right. In terms of transparency, it's it is really important that we are all custodians of the world. And we're all trying to do right by it.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 28:24

And sometimes people come at that from different places. You sort of have to meet in the middle sometimes. And and it's not maybe quite what you always wanted. And the decisions that are made are not quite the right ones in your your view. But, yeah, I I feel like if, yeah, if we all just try our best, that's that's all we can do.

James Gill: 28:42

Hear hear hear. I I think that's that is wonderful. A wonderful thought to end on, I think, Sophie. I mean, I know you had maybe one piece of advice you feel that maybe you wanted to share. I know you always Yes.

James Gill: 28:57

Always I mean, you've already shared them. If there's anyone listening to this and they are not inspired or motivated to go do something, even if it's to to just, you know, drop some money into the crowdfunding campaign, then I don't I don't know. They've probably been listening on on the wrong speed to this.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 29:13

That's obviously

James Gill: 29:14

I don't know.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 29:14

That must be it.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 29:16

Absolutely. Well, that's, yeah, that's really kind. And I my my final two bits, one slightly more flippant than the other, perhaps. I if Alistair hadn't dropped me a message on LinkedIn ten months after we'd met and, you know, if that hadn't have happened, then we wouldn't be where we are. And he didn't know if I was gonna say yes to starting this business, but he took a leap and just went with it.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 29:43

And I will be eternally and forever grateful for that. So I would encourage anyone with a seed to just jump and see what happens. And my my flipping bit of advice is please always send a note when you reach out to someone on LinkedIn, because I'll be honest. And let if there's not a note there, I'm not connecting with you. I'm sorry.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:01

It's not happening.

James Gill: 30:02

Oh my goodness. Now now you're making me worried. I don't know if I sent a note, and

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:05

now did you.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:07

I'm sure you did.

James Gill: 30:08

Better double check.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:09

Yeah. That

James Gill: 30:12

that is probably the most profound feedback of the whole episode. If if people can worry about anything, it's that.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:17

It's so easy, honestly. Make it happen. Amazing.

James Gill: 30:23

Sophie, thank you so much

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:25

for this

James Gill: 30:26

incredibly inspiring show today. I'm so excited for the future, and I I look forward to someday, hopefully, flying on a plane. Goodness. Me too. Severely less guilt and

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:42

That's the goal.

James Gill: 30:43

No. No. No. It all started with a a LinkedIn connection request.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:46

But that had a note on it. There we go.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 30:50

You too. Thank you for doing this because it's great to it's it's awesome to have a platform to share this with. So thank you.

James Gill: 30:57

It's an honor. It's an honor to have you on the show. So if if if people listening, if anyone wants to go check out Sophie's work funnily enough, Sophie's on LinkedIn. I will link that in the show notes. And and carbon neutral fuels that you can also follow the business on LinkedIn.

James Gill: 31:12

Do you have a website yet? Or you you

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 31:14

We do. Yes. Cnf.energy.

James Gill: 31:17

Brilliant. .Energy. Nice. Very nice.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 31:20

Yeah. Yep.

James Gill: 31:20

They got one for everyone Thank you. It's great. I don't know anything, that's a good one. That's a great one. Amazing.

James Gill: 31:27

I thank you very much, Sophie, for being on the show. We

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 31:30

Thank you.

James Gill: 31:31

Are so excited for your future. We'll have to have you back when yeah. As as things develop. Maybe the the Grand Designs revisited. Oh my gosh.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 31:40

We actually need Kevin to come and open the facility, don't we?

James Gill: 31:43

Yeah. Yeah.

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 31:44

Needs to happen.

James Gill: 31:45

Thank you, Savi. It's been

Sophie Zienkiewicz: 31:47

a pleasure. You, James. Loved it.

James Gill: 31:49

Thank And thank you for listening or watching today's show. Honestly, it's it's wonderful to do these episodes, and I hope you've enjoyed today's show. If you have, please do tell anyone and everyone about today's show, and please do leave a comment, a review, five stars, whatever you like to just show how much you've enjoyed it. So thank you. We really want Sophie's message to get out there far online.

James Gill: 32:15

So thank you, and we'll catch you catch you next time.