The EcoSend Podcast

James Gill: 00:15

Hi there, welcome to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. I'm your host James and I'm thrilled to have another show for you today. I'm really excited to be speaking to Sergio Fuente Elba who is from Grow Better Agency. Sergio I know we've been speaking for a long time, you're focused on sustainable marketing, you're having such a positive impact in the world. I'm so excited to be talking to you today on so many different topics about essentially marketing and making the world a little bit better.

James Gill: 00:49

I can't wait to dive into some of the topics we're going to discuss today. How are you doing today?

Sergio Fuentealba: 00:55

Oh very glad to be here with you and your audience James. I'm nothing, hope this small shot could be very fine to try to see how in the South of the world we can try to do something better for digital sustainability. I'm glad for Absolutely.

James Gill: 01:19

Was going to say, tell me, whereabouts are you in the world? You're not just in London like me. You're a long way away.

Sergio Fuentealba: 01:29

Yeah, exactly. Well, I'll tell you briefly, I've come from here, from Santiago De Chile. Some people don't know exactly where is Chile. Some people confuse with Chile pepper from Mexico culture. But yeah, here in Chile, next to Argentina, maybe with that tips, the England people can recognize their country better, a little bit better.

Sergio Fuentealba: 01:57

But yes, well, here in Chile, all this wave of sustainability and digital decarbonization is very, very, very, very young, no more than five years or maybe less. So yeah, the history of me with Grow Better come from my life, from my personal life with my co founder and my partner Lorena. Yeah. So, yeah, from this small corner, we try to do something because I think we have a lot of opportunity and no problems yet. Well, have the same problem than the rest of the world, of course.

Sergio Fuentealba: 02:45

But I think the companies, the small ones, medium and big companies have the chance to do a lot of things of sustainability here. And of course, we have B Corp too, so that's big step for us. Well, that is the idea.

James Gill: 03:04

Amazing. So Sergio, tell me more about how you started to pay attention to maybe digital sustainability, maybe sustainability as a whole. What made you care about this and ultimately start a business around this?

Sergio Fuentealba: 03:26

Before that, I think it's very, very important to tell you how I can I think the sustainability or responsibility companies come from the people? And if you have the mindset of take care with the nature world and to be very clear, thanks to the nature, we are here and we're part of the nature too. And without nature, we don't exist. And that's come from, well, the beginning of my my history. I I am developer of that is my my basic profession.

Sergio Fuentealba: 04:02

But I lost to develop many, many, many years ago.

James Gill: 04:05

I was

Sergio Fuentealba: 04:05

working with a big bank here in Chile, Banco De Estado, for many years. And in that time, to me, the only goal in my life was technological stuff and nothing else. And for that accident of the life, I I start doing some tracking stuff in a in a club into the bank. The the bank of the state here in Chile is a big, big company, very old one. And they service principally, yeah, I think the more poor people in the country.

Sergio Fuentealba: 04:46

So have a lot of things for the people who work in this bank and have one mountaineering club. And I go into this this space and start with training and and and finish doing instructor and guide for mountaineering. And, actually, I have a certification for avalanche training too. Oh, wow. I used the app.

Sergio Fuentealba: 05:10

What's up here? Why one developer guy finished with one natural profession for many years. Yeah. So I was in technological things in this IT department for many years. And then make a big jump to a company who made the big climbing of Mount Everest in Chile.

Sergio Fuentealba: 05:38

That's in America, actually. Yeah. And and that company take me to to give some guide sessions for for their clients. And, of course, I finished the the the bank life one day when I go by bus from my house to the bank any any day. And I say, I can't do this the rest of my life, but because because I I come to do something for the rest of us Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 06:11

And not stay in front of the computer, like, for one bank. I mean,

James Gill: 06:18

so

Sergio Fuentealba: 06:18

I think we we have the chance to do something more more more useful. So I start Yeah. Working with this company. And this company put me in the middle of wilderness with students from from guys from college and for make some some stuff for team building for big companies too.

James Gill: 06:44

Okay.

Sergio Fuentealba: 06:44

So to me, it was very, very important. That's part of my love because I saw that I can do something else. Throw the motor in the skills, doing something in the with ropes and everything, all all that stuff. And that's moved me to Patagonia lands here in Chile and Argentina. I was living there for many years.

Sergio Fuentealba: 07:08

And I forgot all technological life because I was up 100% of my time in mountaineering things. And one day, one scientific center then doing a lot of things with the glaciology and things in the ocean and a lot of research, called me because I knew a little things of ebooks.

James Gill: 07:38

Okay. Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 07:40

When when when I start the iPad when when the iPad become Yeah. I start help them to to go into the wilderness with the with the scientific guys. And my job was guiding, but also take all the information to put into the iBooks. And in that moment, that was exactly seventy years ago, twenty years ago, something happens in my in my mind. I say, I can put together the technology with the natural life to do something.

James Gill: 08:20

Right.

Sergio Fuentealba: 08:21

Special things. Yeah. And that was ten years ago. I back to Santiago De Chile and start working with a marketing agency, traditional marketing agency, digital, of course, but very traditional, helping with that type of stuff. And I was there for four years, something like that.

Sergio Fuentealba: 08:43

And I knew my co founder and I saw, well, leave that agency and start with Grow Better to try make signification a new new role of marketing agency to try to say, okay. We want to marketing, if we want to help for companies give they that their ideas, we need to make like a guarantee they are honest, that the the the brand are a little more ethics, and they need to have some responsibility for the products or for the service Yeah. For this for this world. And that was absolutely crazy because, you know, here in Chile, we're so young in that area. So

James Gill: 09:34

Sure. Sure.

Sergio Fuentealba: 09:36

So, yeah, one the the intention is very, very nice.

James Gill: 09:39

Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 09:40

But but the but the business is not is not very, very well. That's It's five years ago. So so, yeah, with that things in my mind, I start with with good economy, philosophy philosophical area. I don't know if you know that, but come from Austria, And absolutely, we want five years ago when it started with Grow Better, we should yes or yes, a B Corp. Only because we need to have some structure or some protocols or some rules to to guide us for for the for this path of of of sustainability.

Sergio Fuentealba: 10:31

And, of course, we said, okay. We are digital agency. How one digital agency can help for for the for the for the c o two or for the for the environment? And that's what author learned for us because they say, okay, I think we need to try start make some medicine. We need to to see exactly how energy we need or how many kilobytes have each marketing asset from the website, from the email, from the post in Instagram or any other social media.

Sergio Fuentealba: 11:21

We need to start looking a little bit more deeper to know how can improve to try to make less transfer of the of the energy. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the the first step for for us to say, okay. This is this is the path, and we can a little bit more productive in for for that things.

Sergio Fuentealba: 11:43

We can to do from now start.

James Gill: 11:50

That's amazing to hear that story end to end there Sergio, to hear how far, in many ways the agency you're running now and the business you're running now is ahead of the game in terms of, even compared to many businesses I speak to in The UK in the approach to digital sustainability, that's very forward thinking, I believe. But it's fascinating to hear your whole journey there from working in a bank and to hear about taking part in the mountaineering expeditions and then how that ultimately led back into your coding and business side and how that all joined up really nicely. It's what a wonderful story. And just hearing you speak there as well was making me sit up in my chair and think, Oh gosh, I should really get outside and not be by my computer right now. But thank you for sharing that, Sergio.

Sergio Fuentealba: 12:58

No. No. No. It's it's it's a pleasure. It's it's a pleasure to me.

Sergio Fuentealba: 13:00

But but I think for me, it was a little bit easy. And I hear you in an in in in another podcast few few weeks ago talking about of this mindset or this, like, a connection with with with our nature. If you don't have that things in in in in the top of the of the decisions, this path will be very difficult. Mhmm. It's not easy to see.

Sergio Fuentealba: 13:33

It's it's very clear when you have this, like, how do you call to this, the ants have two things here on the head? Where did you call?

James Gill: 13:43

The

Sergio Fuentealba: 13:46

Or the a cat have the mustache, no?

James Gill: 13:50

Oh, the whiskers? Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 13:52

Especially to to recognize a lot of things around with the with the close eyes, only with this

James Gill: 14:01

Right. Right.

Sergio Fuentealba: 14:02

This this connection with with and and it's so so ethereal things, but but it's the base. I mean, if you don't have that that feelings, it's it's very difficult to make decision in your company, and it's not important the size of that company. I remember read one book from American guys. The name is Sustainable Marketing. Very, very good book.

Sergio Fuentealba: 14:30

And in that book, you don't have any word of marketing assets or any word of marketing strategy. All the all the book speak of the decision makers, the owners, the chain, the supply chain, the decisions into the company, the connection with the collaborators and employees, A lot of more important things than, okay, I want to put this post in Instagram or I I need to do this design. Okay. That is, of course, it's very important, but you need to to have the the structure before that.

James Gill: 15:13

Yeah, absolutely. We'll link to that book in the notes for this episode so other people can check that out. One of the topics I know you wanted to talk about Sergio was the marketing sustainability mindset. And I think you were talking about what comes first, not the chicken or the egg, but the responsible business or responsible consumers. That's a topic I think about a lot and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how to think about that.

Sergio Fuentealba: 15:52

Normally you say, well, each person should take their own decisions for your life. The key here is the education. And you have a different way how educate yourself. Of course, the school and university, your parents, your house. But in this time of the human history, I think the companies are very, very important things to do here.

Sergio Fuentealba: 16:25

For me, one company have, should have, but to me is the essential, have the responsibility to educate about the service and product and sales. That is the base. If you don't have that rule, you start doing very bad marketing. Probably your company going down very closely. Of course, 30 ago, fifty years ago, that is not was not relevant.

Sergio Fuentealba: 16:59

But now I think that's hard. For us, for for example, Patagonia, the Patagonia brand, the the Monterey mon Monterey apparel company was a a was the very international model how how you need to be a business. And, like, Juan Shuinard, the the owner, and and and meet him personally a few years ago in South Suds. Very very happy with that. He's my friend.

Sergio Fuentealba: 17:31

You know? We meet with him a few times, but not too much. And I remember one phrase he said in a seminar, I don't remember where. But he said, I don't believe in this word about of sustainability or regenerative. That is the new word of I don't know if in England or in UK, you know that the regeneration.

Sergio Fuentealba: 17:59

Yeah. And it it's okay. But but to me, the word and evolution are to to me, that was the responsibility, the accountability.

James Gill: 18:11

Sure.

Sergio Fuentealba: 18:13

That is the base. Then you can put any name you you you you have. If for that reason, the marketing or the the the the the companies who make marketing are the guarantee for the final consumers to say, okay. I I give my skills to help a responsibility company give your product or your service to the final clients. Normally, big companies have this department inside of the company, that can compliance or any I don't know, any any other ones.

Sergio Fuentealba: 19:00

And and I think the last year, many big companies give me a little the the the the the the rights. I mean, I'm not I'm not crazy because I read other companies and and they so the same things. But for example, few years ago, two no more than that. Two years ago, our our prospect, the ideal prospect was the marketing role. I don't know.

Sergio Fuentealba: 19:33

The the CMO or or or chief or who was marketing into the company. And with our very interesting client for us was Novo Nordisk. I don't know if you know Yeah,

James Gill: 19:51

a pharmaceutical company.

Sergio Fuentealba: 19:54

Yeah, exactly. They contract us and they connect us by Google looking for one marketing sustainability agency and find out and they said, yeah, and now the best prospect for us is the sustainable department, not the marketing department. So the sustainable department try to find a consultancy or agency who know more about sustainability. For them, it's more important that skill than marketing skills because it like, I don't know if how you how you thought about it, but all marketing assets for us are commodities. Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 20:48

It's one commodity. I mean, any guy with expertise or with ChatGBT can do one at Gmail. But you need to have the view of sustainability or the connection with the sustainability to to doing that with with a pleasure, with with a with a to be happy doing that. So so, yeah, for that for for that things, I mean, the the the companies need to build responsibility before the clients. We we need to do educators companies for the consumers.

Sergio Fuentealba: 21:27

You have moreover flying of that here in Chile or here in South America. We're starting with that things very, very slowly, but we are faster. I mean, you can see a lot of sustainability signals for many, many things. The problem is the green watching. How much green watching have all that waves?

James Gill: 21:56

Really, there's so much to take from what you were saying there Sergio though around, I that word responsibility is such an important word to remind ourselves of because I know the world of sustainability and climate and where that intersects with marketing, there are so many phrases and terminology and there's dangers of greenwashing and all sorts of just a lack of authenticity often. And I think that word responsibility really sums up, at least I think I share your view here of how brands need to think about their communication around this. When you can be clear about the responsibility and people know that they are going to be accountable, I think it does always push everyone to be clearer, to not say hyperbolic things or to try to trick people, people actually have to say the right stuff and I think everyone wants to say good stuff but when you're truly being responsible I think that can actually drive the change far deeper into the company, I would like to think. So it's really interesting hearing you play such an important role on marketing there in that sustainability story, because often it's like the marketing just has to tell a good story at the end of the day but actually if marketing is truly being responsible and being that guarantee then you're not going to say the wrong thing.

James Gill: 23:55

So I think that pushes the whole business to do better, which I think is just really great.

Sergio Fuentealba: 24:00

And a very good example of this is Echocent, for example. Yeah. But it is true because when I have very clear purpose of my company or my personal purpose need the vehicle. Yeah? Is is right word?

Sergio Fuentealba: 24:26

That's is is with my company is my vehicle or my my way, my path, my my horse to to to arrive my purpose to to the real things because I can't I I I have dreams to do. But if if if if it's not in my company or with my family or with my friends, yeah, it's very difficult to arrive. That's that's a goal.

James Gill: 24:53

Right. Right. Right.

Sergio Fuentealba: 24:55

When so when you when you say, okay. My my my Yeah,

James Gill: 25:04

think I know what you're trying to say there, Sergei. Sort of what you want to You may have a strong philosophy, you might have strong views, but it's one thing to have an ideology, but then to actually execute on it is a difficult thing. And so it's important to have companies that are maybe share your philosophy but doing different things. Is that

Sergio Fuentealba: 25:32

that maybe yeah. Yeah. But when you when you have clear, that's philosophy. And the company have the clear the same things and and the path is the way. Is and it's not important what is your service or your product.

Sergio Fuentealba: 25:46

I mean, it's your brand. When you when when when your brand is so strong like with a lot of brand, but for example, Patagonia, no matter what sales Patagonia, to me it's not relevant. I know the purpose of the brands. So if I want jackets, North Face, whatever and have the Patagonia, to me it's very clear what Patagonia doing with my money.

James Gill: 26:14

Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 26:14

And I want to buy a jacket but I want to give the money for the purpose of the brand, not for jacket. Of course, I received all the value of of the apparel, of the jacket, of course. But Yeah. But I took the decision of the of the buy of the of the buying Yeah. Of of for for the products.

Sergio Fuentealba: 26:38

So Yeah. So when you have that clear, if you have, for example, HubSpot or or Mailchimp or Send Sendblue Mhmm. Emailing software. And for my company, it's very, very clear that I need to find ways to be more sustainable. And tomorrow, Appear, EchoSend

James Gill: 27:04

Mhmm.

Sergio Fuentealba: 27:04

Would do exactly the same, but give me the value to say for each male, you can put a seed for a plant or for the tree. I don't need to make a money decision with this if it's better male team or this better you. Of course, you. Probably need to take a little more time because it's not very famous, because, for for example, the team is not the same size of Mailchimp because it's a big one. But Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 27:37

I need to need make a check. Check is to say, okay, how many stakeholders, how many providers of my company are 100 sustainable? And how can I measure that? They give me some dates, some information very clear to put in my memories or in my report or in my anything.

James Gill: 28:01

Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 28:01

Mailchimp do that that. Mhmm. They don't do that. And EchoSend, yes, so of course I can, yeah, I don't know if you understand me, but think this

James Gill: 28:16

has been really a belief from day one for us on EcoSend that the way we as individuals choose to buy certain things, will choose to buy, like you say, a Patagonia fleece over a North Face fleece because I believe in their mission and I share those values. I think a long time the business world has not been there and has been behind maybe several years. Our belief is that with the rise of movements like the B Corp movement, we will increasingly see more businesses making those decisions, not just based on profit or cost, but also about being responsible. For us, I think that's a big deal because that's how we think. We choose our suppliers and the companies we want to work with.

James Gill: 29:22

So we hope that business can be a really big force for good and hopefully more and more we'll share mindset. But I do think we are just getting started there, to be honest. We've got a lot of work to do.

Sergio Fuentealba: 29:36

Yeah, no, absolutely. But I think this try to be more coherent. Yeah? The coherency is the key. If you are coherent with your mission, with your values, with your purpose, the way is very clear.

Sergio Fuentealba: 29:54

Mhmm. I remember staying in a in seminar a few months ago for one movement here in Santiago De Chile, very nice hotel and everything. And and the subject of the of the seminar was marketing sustainable marketing. And a lot of big marketing companies was there. And they tried to say what's mean sustainability for for the marketing agency, for the marketing departments in a big business.

Sergio Fuentealba: 30:25

And to me, it's very, very clear. For example, if I see now in 2025, '1 ad of Lucky Strike. This cigarette.

James Gill: 30:45

Lucky Strike. Yeah. Or

Sergio Fuentealba: 30:49

Biseroy or Camel, for example.

James Gill: 30:51

Yeah.

Sergio Fuentealba: 30:54

That is sustainability marketing? I have that question for you, James. Come.

James Gill: 31:00

Is that sustainable? I would say I don't believe that is sustainable.

Sergio Fuentealba: 31:04

Why you don't believe that?

James Gill: 31:09

I don't think there's terribly much sustainable about cigarettes at all. Full stop.

Sergio Fuentealba: 31:15

Why? Why is terrible?

James Gill: 31:18

Well, I guess it depends on how you want to define sustainable, but from implications for health, but also the implications for the product itself, even the product itself causing waste in itself, all of these aspects.

Sergio Fuentealba: 31:36

Perfect. Yeah. To me, the few things is you first said, that it's not health. It's not healthy product for the people. So to me, that type of brands don't need marketing.

Sergio Fuentealba: 31:52

I mean, they don't shouldn't receive any marketing Because they want to sell, of course, they sell anything, but no advertising or no throw any tools who give the message to the rest of the world because that product is not healthy for for the human people. Yeah. And that is sustainability for me. Absolutely. I want to help the companies who give for common good.

Sergio Fuentealba: 32:23

If you don't make any common good for your staff

James Gill: 32:27

I totally agree with you Sergio. I'm conscious of the time we've already used up our half hour, but I think that note about marketing and the products that are marketed is such a powerful one. Think it really highlights the true power that marketers have and I think the responsibility, the word you used earlier, we have. It really is in marketers' hands who and how you choose to get the message out and whether you should be marketing certain products. I think we all have a responsibility on that.

James Gill: 33:08

And it's something I know we take very seriously with the customers we want to use EcoSend. And know Sergio, you're a huge champion of this.

Sergio Fuentealba: 33:21

I'm not sure.

James Gill: 33:23

Think so. I'm so thrilled to had the conversation with you today, Sergio. Was there anything you wanted to say just before we wrap up? I know it feels like the time has flown by, so.

Sergio Fuentealba: 33:36

No, no, no, no. Yeah, well, to the end only to try for us, for our company, we start, we try to put three big stones, three fundamental stones, and that stones come from a different way and can maybe could help for your audience. And this was Theory U, the URIAU, the U theory, the auto charmer. Oh,

James Gill: 34:15

the theory of

Sergio Fuentealba: 34:17

Theory U. Theory U. U theory. Okay. That is very, very power tool to to to start a business with with one intention to do something concrete and no and not two philosophical things.

Sergio Fuentealba: 34:35

I mean, have one idea and going to prototype and start with that. For other way, the reinvention of organizations, that was the Frederic Laloux. He's a French Say

James Gill: 34:50

that again, Sergio?

Sergio Fuentealba: 34:51

Frederic Laloux. Name of the book is Reinvention of the Organizations.

James Gill: 35:00

Reinvention of the Organizations.

Sergio Fuentealba: 35:02

And the other one is Sociocracy. The sociocracy, that is one model of the governance model, sociocracy three point zero. Why not sociocracy? And that is all because the sociocracy three point zero And this three make one one well, this is is one view about of the companies. But, basically, you need to do things with your heart first, then with your brain to do intelligence or clever things, and and then your hands.

Sergio Fuentealba: 36:00

I mean, doing do something. Mhmm. And and just now, I think and with this, I'm finished. In this marketing sustainability, I have a lot of blah blah blah blah blah Mhmm. And and very, very pure doing something concrete.

Sergio Fuentealba: 36:20

Yeah? So, yeah, we want to be sustainability brand. We need to blah blah blah blah blah. And when you said, come on, have this discount for one incredible software to start sending email for all your clever prospect and and you don't make a click to make the bridge. And you lost the opportunity and you will be in a problem because I'm a % sure in a few months or a few years more, your competitors have these different things.

Sergio Fuentealba: 36:53

And and you will need to make resolve a problem and not to take opportunities now in the beginning. So, yeah, thank you very much for your energy of your company, of your guys. It's very very friendly, all of them, for your service, because you are serving with a very very common good tool.

James Gill: 37:19

Thank you Sergio. No, honestly, really appreciate you making the time to chat with me today. And I think our listeners are gonna really enjoy this episode. Think it's wonderful to hear what you're doing and really pushing forward the movement of sustainability, responsibility, of better marketing and better business in a whole other part of the world that I have never had the pleasure of going to. So it's amazing to connect from across the world with you Sergio and thank you for everything you're doing.

James Gill: 37:52

I really want to make sure people can come and find out more. Is the best place the website, we'll make sure it's linked in the show notes, is growbetter.agency, right?

Sergio Fuentealba: 38:01

Yeah exactly all my LinkedIn profile.

James Gill: 38:05

Amazing, well they'll link to both in the show notes and hopefully people can go check out everything you're up to. So thank you so much Sergio, it's been a pleasure.

Sergio Fuentealba: 38:13

Thank you, you. Bye bye.

James Gill: 38:15

Thank and thank you everyone for tuning in today and listening. It's been a wonderful episode. If you have enjoyed today's show and if you want to tell other people about it, it really helps. We want to spread the word about what Sergio is up to and about the show overall. If you know anyone who's on a journey of trying to build a better business, please do send them to this episode and we'd love to see you for the next one.

James Gill: 38:42

So thanks for tuning in and see you next time.