The EcoSend Podcast

James Gill: 00:14

Hi there. Welcome to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. I'm thrilled to be back with another fantastic show today. I'm your host, James. And if this is, your first time listening or watching the show, the EcoSend podcast is a show where we talk to other inspiring leaders who are making the world a little bit better in the businesses that they run.

James Gill: 00:37

I am thrilled today to be joined by Frieda Bischoff, who is the cofounder of Rene Materials. Now Rene is a digital platform that enables companies to sell their leftover and surplus stock and offcuts, for it to be reused. And they think of it as the too good to go but for creative materials. So they are doing some wonderful work in the creative industry, making sure lots of materials don't go to waste, and I'm very excited to hear all about this. So hello, Frieda.

James Gill: 01:11

How are you doing today?

Frieda Bischoff: 01:13

Hey. I'm good. How about you?

James Gill: 01:16

I I'm doing very well. Thank you. Thank you for asking. Yeah. I I'm all the better for for speaking to you because I I am I'm really looking forward to hearing all about the the business you're running.

James Gill: 01:25

It sounds sounds like a wonderful thing. It sounds like the sort of thing we need in the world right now. So before maybe before we get into ready materials. No. Wait.

James Gill: 01:36

Let's say, Rene Materials, tell us a little bit more about that, Frieda, and then we'll we'll hear about how you maybe got onto that journey.

Frieda Bischoff: 01:44

Yeah. Sure. So Rene Materials is part of the circular economy. We realized that there's so much material out there that is currently sent to landfill, sent to incinerators and therefore lost resources. And then actually that what was missing was a bridge that offered these materials to be reused by those who are looking for these certain materials.

Frieda Bischoff: 02:13

If I refer to materials, you can think of it as fabric and leather and paper. Right. So really a lot of creative stuff.

James Gill: 02:23

Yeah. Yeah. All the stuff that we make things out of.

Frieda Bischoff: 02:26

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

James Gill: 02:28

Yes. I

Frieda Bischoff: 02:29

The amazing thing by, reducing is reducing waste is that you save a lot of carbon and you actually save carbon twice. We save it once because it doesn't go into incinerators. It doesn't go to landfill. And then once again because the person that is using that, reclaimed fabric doesn't need they don't need to buy it new. So then all that production that would would have been required to produce that fabric, is saved again.

Frieda Bischoff: 02:59

So it really is a magic tool we use.

James Gill: 03:05

That is what we like to hear. We need more magic on this podcast, I think. Amazing. I think there's so many questions I want to ask about this, and I'm sure many people listening will want to hear more. Before we jump into questions about RENE materials, I'd love to hear about what you do right now and what your role within the business is, and basically, how have you ended up doing this?

James Gill: 03:36

Like, what led you to to doing this?

Frieda Bischoff: 03:38

Mhmm. Yeah. So I would say, I started working on Renee because I would have loved that something like Renee would have existed for myself. Yeah. I started my career in fashion design.

Frieda Bischoff: 03:57

And I did start it believing that, I would love to work in that industry. I thought, garments are an incredible fascinating product because everyone needs to dress and everyone is communicating through their garments even if they say they're not interested in fashion, if you communicate with it. So there was this aspect which I found very, very interesting.

James Gill: 04:22

I have watched the Devil Wears Prada and

Frieda Bischoff: 04:26

Well, yeah, there's this aspect too, which was never my case. I always believed in working fairly and fair and kind with employees and colleagues. But yes, I did study it and I did enjoy it. But actually the industry itself, I realized quite quickly that with my climate and planet conscious heart, it would have been very very difficult for me to find a job where I would have found my values represented. So even fashion brands that do try to be more sustainable has its limitations just because of its industry and its structure.

Frieda Bischoff: 05:17

So I hope not too many people feel now offended if I say that, think that

James Gill: 05:24

Don't worry. If you want to offend a few people on the show, you are welcome to, Frida.

Frieda Bischoff: 05:30

But I do think that the fashion industry is so broken that it is not enough or like that small independent sustainable brands can't really, fix it. So what I decided then after my BA in fashion design is to do a masters in London. So that's the reason why I moved to London. And I did a master's called, and wait for it. It's a very long title.

Frieda Bischoff: 05:57

It's called it's called design for social innovation and sustainable futures.

James Gill: 06:03

Okay. Okay. That's that's pretty yeah.

Frieda Bischoff: 06:07

Yeah. Yeah. I do think that the title describes very well, what it does. So it does it has this, social and environmental lens because actually if you care about people, you should be caring about the planet. Mhmm.

Frieda Bischoff: 06:21

And if you do well good for the planet, you, automatically do better for you you will be more social. You will create a planet that is, better for people to to live on. So it definitely makes sense, that it was this, combination. What that must is helped me was to look at problems in a more systemic way and understanding that, it needs therefore systemic solutions if we want to create an impact. And I believe that with Rene Materials, we did, we well, we are on, on the journey, to do so.

James Gill: 07:04

Amazing. Yeah. What a wonderful, little intro to you, Frieda. I'm I'm curious about that focus for you on sustainability. And was there anything in particular, I guess someone who was very interested in fashion and style and clothing, what was it that led you to care about the other very crucial piece, which is sustainability in the planet?

James Gill: 07:35

Was there anything in your personal life or anything you saw or came across that led you to passionately want to pursue this in the work you were doing?

Frieda Bischoff: 07:45

Yeah, so I would say it was the way I grew up. My family, it's my grandparents. I grew up in the Plek Forest in the South Germany surrounded by forests and trees.

James Gill: 08:01

Oh wow.

Frieda Bischoff: 08:02

So we had that green childhood dream. So yeah, I guess there was always this, yeah, the the difference between what often people understand as the the fashion industry with trends and, like, fast moving, consumption and capitalism. So that was never really that spoke to me. What I loved about the fashion was actually at the time when second hand and vintage was not even trendy. I would love to wear my, mom's, knitted jumpers, which she did as a teenager.

Frieda Bischoff: 08:47

Would love to wear, I loved wearing my grandpa's, jumpers. I loved, grandma's silk plows, so I already had my if you would ask my childhood friends they would I'm sure they would describe me as a yeah I would I would like I always wore things you could not buy in a normal shop.

James Gill: 09:10

Amazing. So

Frieda Bischoff: 09:11

that I that yeah. That I just, found fascinating. So I always liked to look through piles of stuff people threw away, and I liked to find the treasures in that big pile. And I would say that I have a good eye to spot these

James Gill: 09:29

special That's amazing. You're wearing the priceless items of clothing. That's awesome. You remind me of I don't know if I mentioned it on the podcast before, but I I watched I maybe will get on to, I don't know what your thoughts are on Patagonia, but they had a movie about how we were buying too much stuff. And and in that movie, they talked about the start of fashion and how for a long period of time, people would only have two clothes pegs in their house.

James Gill: 10:07

And one was their everyday work wear and the other clothes peg was their Sunday best clothes, and and that was it. They just had two outfits. Yeah. And then at some point, fashion came along, and suddenly we had a need to wear different things at different times of the year. And, Some might argue it's been downhill since then, but I don't know.

James Gill: 10:30

But yeah, it just really opened my eyes to this idea that how many of us only have two outfits in our wardrobes and how much do we need? So it's incredible. It's wonderful to hear that you working within this industry are trying to change it. So it would be great to hear a little bit more then about ready materials and how it works and who are you selling to and how are you getting these materials? Tell us

Frieda Bischoff: 11:09

all. Super. I guess I would start by saying again that what I really believe is that if there's a systemic problem, we need a systemic solution. So if we like, it doesn't make sense, it would be wrong to point our fingers to companies and say, you are bad, you do bad, because you're producing so much waste. If the only solution they are given from the system and from the economy is waste disposal as we know it as trashing it in a bin and then waste disposal managing company comes and collects it and does whatever with it.

Frieda Bischoff: 11:51

And it's actually about giving them an alternative. So what we do, at Renee is that we offer these companies to, offer their, it can be surplus materials. They could have, I don't know, ordered the wrong color, and their customer base changed so they couldn't use the green anymore. So they have that spare, so they can list that product. Or then it can be offcuts.

Frieda Bischoff: 12:17

So it's just inevitable or like it is I don't know if that's the right word. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you produce a round thing, but you start with a square, it's just of course, you will have offcuts.

James Gill: 12:30

Sure. This

Frieda Bischoff: 12:31

is impossible to change. There was like a movement in the fashion industry that was called zero waste pattern. The same you have in other production lines that they try to reduce waste, and that's definitely we need more of it. But that only works to a certain extent. And I do believe that it's okay to have these offcuts as long as they find a new life elsewhere.

Frieda Bischoff: 12:59

And it's often about this change of industry. So just because it was waste in one industry, it just needs to be presented to a different audience, to a different industry, and suddenly it becomes a shine again. Suddenly it is of use again. That lets me actually to the other side. So Chennai, is a two sided marketplace.

Frieda Bischoff: 13:21

We have two different customers. So it's the companies that use us as their alternative to waste disposal. And then the receiving side, we call them our creators and makers. So that's the creative industry that can vary from actually, I don't know, like our aunts that picked up a DIY project and started crocheting during the pandemic. It can be the designers of tomorrow, so the art and design students that are still in education.

James Gill: 13:54

Sure.

Frieda Bischoff: 13:54

But it can also be the, self employed creative that produces small quantities of crafts or products and are selling them further. Or our fourth target are workshop facilitators. So we often work with schools or youth clubs or galleries. They all have some kind of engagement programmes and using our hands and creating something is a really beautiful tool to engage, with people. So often they run workshops where they need materials.

Frieda Bischoff: 14:34

So these would be our, our customer base. And, why they yeah. Why they appreciate our service is, because we offer, from standardized white paper to very random and surprising and inspiring, creative materials, all to an at an unbeatable price because we are trading a product that was doomed to be thrown away. So we can say that we offer materials to half of the price as if they would buy it new.

James Gill: 15:10

Amazing. Yeah.

Frieda Bischoff: 15:12

Thanks to Joel.

James Gill: 15:12

That makes a lot of sense. That's incredible. So both sides are kind of getting a valuable service, and there's you in the middle. I don't know if I'm getting too geeky on this, but how does it work then? So say I'm like making a I don't know, I'm gonna make a suit for someone.

James Gill: 15:35

Do I come to you Frieda and say, hey, do you have any linen available today? Or do you have like a shop essentially and I can go and look around and pick stuff? Like, how does how does the actual buying work?

Frieda Bischoff: 15:52

Yeah. Yeah. So you you put yourself in the in the shoes of a, receiving side of the customer. Yeah. So, you would be looking for a high quality fabric.

Frieda Bischoff: 16:05

I would if you wanna do a suit, I would recommend you a a light wool. Brilliant. Highest. Highest quality. And so then you would go on our online shop.

Frieda Bischoff: 16:17

We have an online shop that is as easy to use as Amazon or any other online online shop. And then you would just browse through what is available. You would place your order and you would have it delivered to your chosen address.

James Gill: 16:37

Amazing. What we

Frieda Bischoff: 16:38

want to, achieve with that as an online shop is that we are accessible UK wide, that we are accessible in very remote areas where they don't have the access to a reuse hub, that we are very convenient. Because we believe that if you want to, be a true alternative to buying new, you need to be as convenient, as easy accessible than our competitors as Amazon and so on.

James Gill: 17:12

Yeah, and we all know how easy it is to buy from Amazon.

Frieda Bischoff: 17:17

Absolutely. So

James Gill: 17:18

and buying something that has is slightly doing doing a bit more for the world than Amazon is is probably a good idea, isn't it?

Frieda Bischoff: 17:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope that we do more than just slightly. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Frieda Bischoff: 17:33

Yeah. It like, otherwise it otherwise, one it's too easy to use Amazon. So we really need to

James Gill: 17:40

is. Is. Isn't it? There was I I feel like I maybe am just watching TV all the time. I finally watched a program the other day that came out at Christmas time on Netflix, which is like Buy Now.

James Gill: 17:51

It's all about the call it the shopping conspiracy, but many people listening will have probably seen it, but they talk in that about how easy Amazon has made it to buy things and how you just have an idea of what you wanna buy and you can go straight in and before you know it, it's showing up at your door and how like, that ain't a great thing for the world, is it? That's not a good thing. Unless what we're buying is perhaps, somewhat more, sustainable.

Frieda Bischoff: 18:20

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

James Gill: 18:23

I I have another question for you, Frieda, which is around the the this sounds wonderful. Reilly Materials, is it a business or a charity? And if it's a business, how do you make money?

Frieda Bischoff: 18:40

So we are a business. Yeah. And we've chosen to be a business.

James Gill: 18:47

Sure. This is what we're here for. We're here to understand this because there's a lot of discussion around where's the line, what's a charity, what's a business, like, what what are the benefits, why why do one or the other? So, yeah. It's really interesting to hear.

Frieda Bischoff: 19:02

Yeah. So we believe that we want to be within the economy Yeah. To prove or to fix the economy. We want to prove that it is possible to be a viable business to make money while doing good or actually that these things are going hand in hand. Mhmm.

Frieda Bischoff: 19:23

Because for how we set up our business model is the more money we make as a business means more safe materials, more Yeah. Less waste to landfill, more saved carbon. So really, that was a very conscious decision that we said no we don't want to be a charity, we don't want to be dependent on funding that might be for a year or two if we're lucky and then we might shut down. So yeah, we work on a commission. So the companies that list their products on our marketplace, they, yeah, we get a service fee.

Frieda Bischoff: 20:06

We take a commission of the sales price. And that is, again, we have such a special product because these companies previously had to pay for it.

James Gill: 20:17

Yeah.

Frieda Bischoff: 20:17

So actually, that was a minus figure in their financial table. Now anything they make with it is an huge upgrade for them, a huge financial incentives. So they don't we can ask for a quite big commission compared to other marketplace that might take five or 10 or so. And we can ask for so much because it is a product that has so far been overlooked.

James Gill: 20:44

That's amazing. What a beautiful business then. So you're making money but you're helping your sellers make money from something they used to previously have to pay to get removed, and then the people that your customers are getting a product that they otherwise either couldn't get or would have had to have paid probably twice the price.

Frieda Bischoff: 21:08

So you

James Gill: 21:08

could say it's a win win win.

Frieda Bischoff: 21:10

It's a win win win. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully the biggest winner in all that is the planet.

James Gill: 21:18

Oh, yeah. It's the

Frieda Bischoff: 21:19

planet, because saved waste and saved resources. There is with Rene, there will be, less need for, new productions for any of these greater supplies. Absolutely.

James Gill: 21:31

I think that makes it a win win win I think there's too many wins here, Fareena. That is really interesting as well. I think your approach there of building this as a business rather than a charity is one that I think will be really interesting for a lot of people listening, because I think we've talked about it a lot in the past of this traditional focus of businesses are here to make profit and charities are here to do good stuff. What's a business doing trying to do any good or what's a charity trying to do trying to make money? Approach there, the amount of impact you can have and perhaps the longer term kind of commitments and the ability to be self sufficient just totally aligns with your goals.

James Gill: 22:21

It's really, really interesting for how you structure things. I love it.

Frieda Bischoff: 22:27

But we often get that question, why we are not a charity, and we also get customers in that would have expected the materials to be for free.

James Gill: 22:37

Right, yeah.

Frieda Bischoff: 22:39

So actually for us we are in that middle space that there are a few reuse hubs across UK that are set up as a charity and they receive the materials for free from the companies and they pass it on to the customers for free. Which created a kind of understanding for people that materials from the second market should be for free, can be expected to be free. And actually I think that there is a behaviour change and an educational journey we all have to do. Because actually what happens if you give out materials or clothing or whatever items for free is that they won't be as valued. In our economy everything is run by numbers But that also means that the numbers help us, the price tag of a product helps us to value it.

Frieda Bischoff: 23:42

And and yeah, it's that is an interesting case because it creates yeah, sometimes that irritation for people that, they wouldn't be open to pay for it. Then they would suddenly forget that actually, if they would buy it new, they would have to pay much, much more. And that it's just in our economy, if they would want that Rene is around for much longer, we need to pay our stuff somehow. So, it needs to be paid. And, we we like in very, very early days of Rene, we had a test hub in Central Saint Martins in the design university in London.

Frieda Bischoff: 24:28

And there was a method where we gave the materials out for free. And there you could actually see that, depending on the character of the student, some would take as much as they could carry. But then actually, at the end of the day, if you would walk through the university, we would find these individual items somewhere dumped in a corner because they realized actually, no, I got that for free. I don't really need it. I'll just leave it.

Frieda Bischoff: 24:54

And that would actually only add to the problem. So there's also I don't know if you heard of the rebound effect?

James Gill: 25:02

No. I this is gold, Frieda. This is amazing. So tell me about the rebound effect.

Frieda Bischoff: 25:08

Yeah. So the rebound effect is a there's still too little research. So the circular economy, we will have to do much, much more work. We need more numbers. But what it is about is that there is a question of if you allow people to reuse and, often get materials for free, get items for free, that actually what it makes is that their private budget opens up more like they have money left at the end of the month, which they eventually will then invest in something else.

Frieda Bischoff: 25:46

So at the end of the month, this one person might have consumed much much more than if they wouldn't have received materials or products reused. So, if we would go back to you as the person who would want to sew a suit and you would get that material all for free. So you saved 100 or something. It's not that you put these 100 into a good course or maybe you would save it, but it's very likely that you would then, I don't know, buy your new iPhone quicker because you have the money. You then buy this new case because you really like No,

James Gill: 26:33

that is so the re value

Frieda Bischoff: 26:36

effect of you tried to do something good, but actually with that, you kicked off another ball.

James Gill: 26:42

People are gonna spend their money still and they're gonna spend it on something and it might not be the most sustainable option.

Frieda Bischoff: 26:50

Exactly.

James Gill: 26:50

That's so interesting, the model of actually charging for the materials being fundamentally connected with the mission of reducing the amount of material that goes to landfill. I never really thought about it on that level of actually the charging of the cost of the product and the price you're selling on it is actually a really core part of the whole proposition and lowering it to free actually has some unexpected consequences that are really opposing the mission. It's super, super interesting.

Frieda Bischoff: 27:28

Absolutely. We still claim that our product is 50% cheaper than buying me Because on the other side, like after the conversation we just had, we could also argue to say, actually we sell everything for twice as much.

James Gill: 27:42

Yeah. People at the end of

Frieda Bischoff: 27:43

the month only bought half of the materials. But that wouldn't work. So for us it's really important that we can offer the materials cheaper than you. So that actually everyone in our long chain of winners wins economically. Only then we can really motivate the people to use our service.

Frieda Bischoff: 28:04

There's so many great products out there that are very sustainable, but they really have, a hard time to be sold to people because they are more expensive than an alternative product. So we do these surveys with our customers and we ask, is the sustainability of Rene the driver or is the price the driver? And it's somehow in the middle, but actually, for, more people the price is, drives them. And then it's just a nice extra addition that they can feel better when finding tubes.

James Gill: 28:49

So it's so profoundly accurate, I think. You remind me of a quote I heard at an event I went to recently that someone said, people love sustainable products and sustainability, but they go mad for a bargain. And ideally we want to be building companies and products that hopefully do both where we can be offering incredibly good value and sustainable products. Absolutely. As close to sustainable as possible hopefully.

James Gill: 29:26

No, that's so interesting for you to thank you. I know that we are almost at time. I don't want to end, but I think you probably have some thoughts on the future of where things are going. So I didn't know if you wanted to share any thoughts of maybe the industry is moving or your own plans for the future, Frieda, it would be great to hear.

Frieda Bischoff: 29:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd love that. So, well, if I think about the future, I think it will have to be circular.

James Gill: 29:57

Yeah.

Frieda Bischoff: 29:58

And it will have to be circular for two reasons. One, because if we as human want to be around for longer, we should be more like nature shows us. So a tree is such a closed loop, so, we should learn from it. But then actually, there will also be because the first argument I brought, that's like a more holistic and that's like emotional and like keeping humans alive in this world. But actually, there will be a second argument which is more the economical one.

Frieda Bischoff: 30:38

It's just fact that we live on a planet with fine resources and resources will be more rare and rare and rare. So some materials, it will be impossible to get them straight as new resource. So we will be depending on the secondary market. We can already see that with electronic happening now that in some countries it's worth already to employ people to take apart, laundry machines and, phones to get, through to these rare earth, and reusing them. And similarly, that will happen to other materials.

Frieda Bischoff: 31:27

We can see that with wood, which, the price of wood is like that skyrocket, very much especially, certain types of wood. So we can see, that it will be an economical demand to to to go to that secondary market, which luckily only helps, the circular material circular, economy to to grow.

James Gill: 31:55

Absolutely, I think we can all well, I'd like to think everyone listening can get on board with that kind of future. Thank you, Prida. I will link to the website and if people want to find you that we've got your LinkedIn in the notes as well. One final question which is tell us about the name, Rene Materials.

Frieda Bischoff: 32:19

Why Rene? Well, actually, that has many, many layers to it, and more layers were added. But how it all started was that we brainstormed. We said, okay, we're actually targeting creatives and makers. Maybe there's someone in the art world that could inspire our name.

Frieda Bischoff: 32:43

And we talked about the, time of surrealism and dataism, which was a and it doesn't matter if you don't know what it is. But what is important to know about this epoch is that they put everything upside down of what was known as art. Before that, painters were very good if they were able to paint the nature as closely like you could it looked almost like a photograph. You couldn't see any, difference. Whereas then, dataism and surrealism started and they said, well no, it's all a lie.

Frieda Bischoff: 33:18

It's just on the canvas, it's not the reality. So the abstract connection to that is, Renee does that with waste. So we have been accepting waste forever. We didn't question it. It just was part of any production.

Frieda Bischoff: 33:34

Now we come in and say, no. No. No. No. That can't be true.

Frieda Bischoff: 33:39

We turn it upside down. We, put everything in question, and we do it differently. Amazing. And one of the pioneers of surrealism of that movement was called Rene Magritte. Oh.

Frieda Bischoff: 33:52

So that was the first time There we go. That name Rene. And and then we added another e because our start up started with Wazi and myself. So two women in the entrepreneur world, which is still very rare. So we said we want to highlight that and if you add in the French language another e, it becomes female.

James Gill: 34:14

There we go. Which that led

Frieda Bischoff: 34:17

us to understand that Rene comes from Renetre and Renetre means reborn giving new life.

James Gill: 34:25

Oh, oh my goodness. So beautiful.

Frieda Bischoff: 34:28

Exactly. We realized this is exactly what we do that describes in one word word what we are doing. We edited materials on the end, because that might makes it just even more, obvious. And then the last layer

James Gill: 34:44

Oh, and there's more.

Frieda Bischoff: 34:45

Only appeared, we already had the domain and everything. And then we realized that everything we need to make the circular economy work starts with an RE. Okay. Yeah. So we have reduce.

Frieda Bischoff: 35:04

Have repair. We have recycle. We have reuse. Recycle, we have reuse, and now we have Rene.

James Gill: 35:12

Yay, there we go. Amazing. Frieda, this show has been so informative and educational. I feel like I've had a lesson in fashion, a lesson in recycling, circular economy, arts, French. I've had it all.

James Gill: 35:31

This is amazing.

Frieda Bischoff: 35:34

You And it was a pleasure to be here, James.

James Gill: 35:36

Thank you, Frieda. It has been such a pleasure to speak with you today. I thank you so much and we really wish you the best on this journey. We will make sure anyone listening, if you've got some textiles you wanna make some money from, well, go check out Ready Materials. If you need some materials, might be making a suit, then go go check it out.

James Gill: 36:01

Thank you so much, Rida. It's been a pleasure to speak with you today.

Frieda Bischoff: 36:05

Thank you for having me.

James Gill: 36:07

And thank you, thank you for everyone for listening or watching. If you've enjoyed today's show, please do tell your friends, family, colleagues about it. We would love for more people to hear about Frieda's story so please do tell as many people as you can give it a thumbs up or a five stars and thank you for tuning in and we will catch you on the next one. Cheers!