The EcoSend Podcast

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[00:00:00] Chris W: Welcome to the EcoSend podcast. Be inspired, educated and entertained by the world's most ambitious leaders, putting climate at the top of their agenda. Welcome

[00:00:27] James Gill: to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. I'm your host, James Gill, and I am thrilled to bring you another wonderful episode today. For those of you new to the EcoSend this is a show where we talk to other inspiring leaders and people in the world of business and marketing about how they can be making the world a little bit better and on today's show, I am thrilled to be joined by Erin and Erin Andrea Krask is an award winning strategist.

[00:00:54] Erin's got over 20 years of experience with her career culminating as a global head of consumer brands. Erin has expertise in strategic development, profitability, leadership, and communication. And she's a certified business and leadership success coach. So leveraging 16 years of leadership, she empowers positive impact and contribution driven businesses to succeed on their terms and building a profitable business while amplifying a ripple effect.

[00:01:22] Of goodness. I am very excited to be speaking to you, Erin, because I'm sure you have a lot, well I know you have tons of experience to share with us, so I'm looking forward to diving into it. How are you doing today?

[00:01:34] Erin Andrea Craske: I'm doing fantastic. Although, listening to your introduction, I thought I may actually reduce it.

[00:01:41] Too long and boring given to me, so thanks for doing

[00:01:44] James Gill: that. I can give you a shorter introduction if you like, I don't mind, I don't mind.

[00:01:51] Erin Andrea Craske: Okay, I think I'm going to survive today, but Okay,

[00:01:55] James Gill: sure thing, sure thing. Well I guess, Erin it's good to be speaking. I'd love to hear more about what you're, what you're doing in your own words, perhaps.

[00:02:03] What, what are you up to today? What are you working on? What are you doing?

[00:02:07] Erin Andrea Craske: Right. So what I actually do, I In my mission, I have a mission. I want to elevate the world. I want to make it better. And the only way I believe I can do it, you know, taking into account my experience and my background and my knowledge is to Help good businesses to do better in business.

[00:02:32] Oh, what I noticed a lot of trainings are provided on sustainability emissions, you know, pollution, recycling. So it's all like the thing that come on top. There is still a business foundation and if businesses don't know how to achieve longevity of their businesses. You know, all this fantastic sustainability training, they won't help.

[00:03:00] It's like an everything. So I'm taking care of the foundation of our business to make sure that they are sustainable from longevity point of view and profitable. Because another thing that I also noticed, I hear quite often that people say either profit or purpose.

[00:03:21] James Gill: Right. Right. Or how

[00:03:23] Erin Andrea Craske: we can combine both.

[00:03:25] So in my world, they have to go hand in hand together. There's no either or, it's and, and it's a very strong and.

[00:03:33] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:03:33] Erin Andrea Craske: So it's another obvious thing that I pay attention to. All together. My main focus is on moving ethical business leaders and purpose driven businesses from frustration, stress, and overwhelm, you know, that is always present.

[00:03:55] to effortless leadership, business growth, and life if they'd like

[00:04:00] James Gill: to.

[00:04:01] Erin Andrea Craske: So that's what I do from overwhelm to effortlessness.

[00:04:07] James Gill: I love the sound of that. There's not a lot of people in business that feel as calm and perhaps serene as they maybe should. I know for myself, I could do a lot more. Calmness in my life.

[00:04:20] So I'm very, very keen to dig into this and learn more. And because I'm sure there's a lot of people who, I mean, I, yeah, I'm struggling to think of anyone running a business that, that, that is anything other than overwhelmed most of the time.

[00:04:34] Erin Andrea Craske: I think it's not even the biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is that we believe that this is how it's supposed to be.

[00:04:41] That is the norm. You know, I came up with three symptoms to this problem. So I think you're gonna love them. So the first symptom is running like a headless chicken.

[00:04:52] James Gill: The second one,

[00:04:55] Erin Andrea Craske: being trapped in a hamster wheel.

[00:04:58] James Gill: Okay. Yep. Tick

[00:04:59] Erin Andrea Craske: stuck in the rat race.

[00:05:06] And they're not supposed to be there because ultimately the problem was all the symptoms, I mean, apart from they make your business life more effortful. And this is something you don't want because then again, they're going to have ripple effect on your relationship, on your private life, on your health.

[00:05:23] Ultimately, all of them, the final destination is going to be mental health.

[00:05:29] James Gill: It's

[00:05:29] Erin Andrea Craske: inevitable. You know, some are going to come to it later, some are going to come to it earlier, but it is inavailable. So yeah, and this is something that I would like to prevent as much as I can because mental health very often is in our hands.

[00:05:44] It's not externally driven, it's internally driven.

[00:05:47] James Gill: Absolutely. So, yeah, so this is definitely sort of diving into sort of where one's personal and business lives intersect and sort of looking at both in a very considered, cohesive manner. I I must ask, I mean, I think there's a lot of things we can dive into here.

[00:06:08] How have you gotten to talking about this? How is this now what you're working on and focused on? Like what's led to this point? I mean, we obviously had an extremely exciting career across, you know, many different areas of business. So yeah, how have you, yeah, how have you got to this point? It'd be great to hear more about the story that led to it.

[00:06:27] Erin Andrea Craske: Oh, well, you know, I can say life challenges and make a wise face. I say, you know, challenges I overcame. Well, in reality, yeah, there were life challenges because I do have my 20 years in corporate multinational environment, and apart from doing what I absolutely love doing, and that was brand business strategy, I paid attention.

[00:06:50] Somehow, now I realize that I always was paying attention to surroundings, and also to the way I felt, and what made me believe that what I felt is not correct, and it's not actually me driven, is because I absolutely loved what I was doing, I was just me. 100 percent committed and I enjoyed developing myself.

[00:07:14] I do have a growth mindset. So it just, you know, comes naturally and I love seeing the results of my contribution. So I was so much focused on making my business better, my brands better. You know, I cared about consumers. I cared about my teams. And nevertheless, if I saw that it's not reciprocated, you know, at some point I couldn't Blame on myself because I saw that I'm doing what employees would like to see, employers would like to see from their employees.

[00:07:46] Sure, sure. I was sitting on the boxes apart from one. I challenged back.

[00:07:51] James Gill: Okay. I

[00:07:52] Erin Andrea Craske: disagreed and I challenged back. And I cared more than it was expected by the role profile.

[00:07:58] James Gill: Okay. And

[00:07:58] Erin Andrea Craske: you know, when you look at it from this perspective, it's like, all right, so there's something that is not working. You always want to have somebody self motivated, dedicated, caring, bringing results, you know, motivating people underneath, you know, doing all together.

[00:08:14] And still you kind of, you're not particularly welcome. And that made me think that again, there's something wrong with the structure. And it's very challenging to blame on employees for something that's not working. So that was the first thing. Another thing that came to this point led to this point is that I really love brands because I believe brands are.

[00:08:35] Basically, it's your business equity, you know, the stronger is your brand, the better financially offers your company. And I could see that the whole notion of the brand got redundant with time. So it's another thing that when I started writing the book, my first idea actually was to pay tribute. To the brands as they deserve it and undeservingly forgotten

[00:09:02] James Gill: That

[00:09:03] Erin Andrea Craske: was my you know, my main idea.

[00:09:05] I really wanted to bring brands back to business Because having a proper brand makes it much easier To run your business. It's, it's a totally different mentality. You have you do, you need to less to spend less resources. It's easier to acquire customers. It's easier to keep them with your company, right?

[00:09:27] It's, it doesn't cost as much. And nevertheless, we all go into symptoms. I would try to waste our sources on immediate. Actions, you know, that are not even your brand strategy related. So that was another thought behind it and with regards to the rest I'm, well, I'm eager free,

[00:09:47] James Gill: you

[00:09:49] Erin Andrea Craske: know, just being very careful pronouncing it.

[00:09:52] So I do have a different view of the world and of people and of the truth and who we are and what is important, you know, and through all my challenges, okay, now going back because we all like to have heroes, so I'm not here, the challenges, but Eastern philosophy. was really helpful for me to, you know, get through this time periods.

[00:10:17] And I saw the effect it had on me, even on the, in, in the talk as times and, you know, applying it not as cure, but applying it as prevention

[00:10:29] James Gill: in an

[00:10:30] Erin Andrea Craske: easy and complicated way. So people can, are not afraid of doing it. I'm not afraid of adopting it. You will see such an Massive effect on your peace of mind on your calmness on the way you communicate with people on the way you see yourself, you accept yourself.

[00:10:50] And from this place, all the rest gonna fall into the right places. So that just, you know, combination of yeah, not being spring chicken, I guess.

[00:11:01] James Gill: Well, I don't, I don't know about none of us are spring chickens.

[00:11:04] Erin Andrea Craske: Yeah. My children are talking. Eventually, you know, it's only talking to some people, some people are still waiting for the sound, for the voice, but yeah.

[00:11:17] James Gill: I no, it's, it's clear you, I mean, there's a wealth of experience you've, you've had there, Erin, and I, so I guess, I mean, one of the things to dig into there was you mentioned, About a book and you you've been writing a book. I mean, it'd be lovely to hear more about what what the book Encapsulates what what is what is the book called and then tell us more about it.

[00:11:39] Yeah

[00:11:39] Erin Andrea Craske: Well, the book actually I'm proud to announce that now it's a award winning book already.

[00:11:46] James Gill: Okay. Well, that's pretty good

[00:11:48] Erin Andrea Craske: three categories actually in marketing and PR category a small business and entrepreneurship category and have Interior book design non fiction.

[00:12:00] James Gill: Okay.

[00:12:01] Erin Andrea Craske: And the book actually was written specifically to help small businesses, ethical small businesses.

[00:12:09] So. Startups, entrepreneurs, brand owners, you know, to learn how to build a strategy. It's very easy written, very, very engaging language because I wanted it to be easy. I wanted it not to scare people away as many academic books, you know, might. So It's a lot of practical advice and research data, and importantly, it's all built like in a small paragraph, so it is really easy to accept, to read, and to digest.

[00:12:44] And another thing that I wanted it to be is that I wanted to give an overview of everything that I learned over 20 years.

[00:12:54] James Gill: Which

[00:12:55] Erin Andrea Craske: means that you won't get like massive articles for several pages about one subject. You will get only as much as you need to know at this moment of time to get an overview of the business, of the business strategy or brand strategy or communication strategy.

[00:13:13] Then, if you'd like to learn more, you can use this book as a springboard. You know, there's also a list of additional material that you can, if you'd like to deepen your knowledge. But initially, this book will be enough to give you the overview of how the business is. Is better be run also indicate all the mistakes try to give practical advice.

[00:13:36] Okay, but the situation This is how you can sort it out or these are potential options. You can look at so yeah, that's It's a kind of a reference book I believe for marketing

[00:13:47] James Gill: And, and remind me again, so the book is called what, sorry, Erin? From Purpose to

[00:13:50] Erin Andrea Craske: Profit.

[00:13:52] James Gill: From Purpose to Profit, I see, I see.

[00:13:55] Okay, well, I will, I'm sure many people will have a look out for that in their local bookshops. Yeah, absolutely, and it's going to

[00:14:02] Erin Andrea Craske: be in show notes. If you purchase it through the Great British Bookshop,

[00:14:08] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:14:08] Erin Andrea Craske: then it's going to be 50 percent off.

[00:14:11] James Gill: Oh, amazing. Okay.

[00:14:13] Erin Andrea Craske: Yeah,

[00:14:13] James Gill: that's, that's fantastic. Okay, cool.

[00:14:16] So I guess I I believe that these concepts, I mean, these concepts must be in your book. So the, some of the concepts I know you wanted to discuss breaking down into strategy, leadership, and profitability. So I feel like those are some very good high level sort of topics to discuss around Going from purpose to profit and and how people can be thinking about this in their own businesses.

[00:14:41] So maybe we can unpack each of those if you like, Erin, and I know it's not just strategy, but it's effortless strategy, right? So let's, I mean, I'm keen to hear about this. I like the sound of anything being effortless. So Well, how, how does one how does one do this? Like, tell us all.

[00:14:58] Erin Andrea Craske: Well, effortlessness, let's, okay.

[00:15:01] Because we're overruled. Talking high level concepts and to unpack each of them is probably going to take quite a while.

[00:15:09] James Gill: Yeah. We might need a few episodes for that. Okay. Yeah, sure. We can, we can keep it, we can keep it speedy. Give us the, the, the, the five minute version.

[00:15:18] Erin Andrea Craske: So they're kind of a few things that I would like to pay attention to is that most of our mistakes that we make in business, they come from three or four different sources.

[00:15:28] So the first one, and those things going to make our business as more effortful. So the first one, we tend to look at the symptoms and attack tend to fix surface issues.

[00:15:42] And that comes from immediate focus on best practices and on how to's. And again, nothing to do with young entrepreneurs.

[00:15:53] The problem is that the whole society tells you about how to's. And I believe that we get conditioned because we believe that how to actually, it is a tactical question. We believe that fixing something on the surface gonna. make it better holistically because this is what we're trying to do. In reality, it doesn't really work that way because to work on a business and to really achieve improvement, you need to go below one or two level below from symptoms into the root cause.

[00:16:31] And it is not the question how to, it's a question how Of why, right? So the first path to make it easier to run your business is to stop focusing on how to's and start focusing on why's. That's the first thing. Another thing is that we are very much focused on instant gratification. And again, I believe that with every new generation, it gets more and more detrimental.

[00:17:01] It's really engraved in us that something has to happen immediately. It's like you're going to become millennia tomorrow, right? And we all believe that is possible because everybody tells us that it is possible. Well, it is not possible. It doesn't work. I don't know how many examples people need to get from their own lives for expensive courses.

[00:17:25] You know, that it's not, Possible it doesn't work. I mean, yeah, you can win a lottery ticket if you're lucky. You may not be lucky that, but that is probably the only way proper way. And the only way that will work for business longevity is the strategy. And the strategy becomes easy because, I dunno, usually I was giving like, you know, it's like a pass through strategy, but basically what it is, it's like.

[00:17:51] A Christmas tree, when you have your strategies, that is your core, that is a trunk, that is a tree, then you have objectives, such as branches, and then you put decoration, that are your tactical activities. You can decorate it the way you want, but it's still straightforward and it's solid as a trunk.

[00:18:10] James Gill: Right, right, right, right.

[00:18:11] So many people are putting, trying to put decorations on on a dead tree sometimes, maybe. Yeah,

[00:18:20] Erin Andrea Craske: it's quite a good analogy. It's like, you know, when you try to get somewhere and you don't know where you go. So you want to get to, I don't know. Oh yeah. When you don't know where you go and your road going to bring you there.

[00:18:33] Right.

[00:18:33] James Gill: You

[00:18:35] Erin Andrea Craske: try to go somewhere, but you don't know the path. So what you do. Okay. Let's try this one. Let's turn left. You walk left, left, back. You can see you can't get there. So what do you do? No, that's not the right direction. Let's turn right. Right. You start to only cry because you again you have no path.

[00:18:52] So you're just trying all possible opportunities At some certain point of time. First of all, you're going to run out of water and food

[00:19:01] James Gill: Because

[00:19:01] Erin Andrea Craske: you still can't reach that because again, you don't know where you go Then you have a team behind you and they get actually quite annoyed Because the car reached the destination because they keep on changing.

[00:19:13] They're hungry, they're tired, they want to sleep, you know, they just want to get an indication that they're going to get there and it's not happening. So that is what it means to run a business without a strategy, right? If you call it effortless, I doubt it because I don't believe in it. Another focus that we also tend to have is on goals.

[00:19:37] KPIs and sales because we have this absolutely amazing idea that if we sell more We're gonna earn more.

[00:19:46] James Gill: Yeah,

[00:19:46] Erin Andrea Craske: that is not correct because we will earn more If our customers buy more,

[00:19:54] James Gill: okay Okay, so it's not talk us through that that sounds i'm trying to understand that. Okay, so So instead of having, yeah, I, yeah, do explain it.

[00:20:04] I'm keen to hear. Yeah.

[00:20:06] Erin Andrea Craske: Well, the thing is that when you, it's, it's all about in your mindset. So when you think that selling gonna bring you money, you are focusing on your company, on your product and your sales. That is your main focus that you drive and here come, keep your head up high again, right? But.

[00:20:27] If you realize that you earn money not through selling, but through your customers or clients or consumers buying from you, where is your mental focus? All the people that are supposed to pay for your business because they pay for your business, not your sales.

[00:20:46] James Gill: I see, I see. So sort of flipping around and thinking more about the customer and what they What they want, what's in their minds, rather than what's your own sales team's goals.

[00:20:56] What to sell.

[00:20:57] Erin Andrea Craske: Exactly. Right. So that is actually for small businesses, especially, I think it's a really challenging mindset change because they usually start their business because they believe that their idea is fantastic and it's definitely going to sell and it's definitely going to work out. And here they start focusing on sales, then from the sales, again, come KPIs that we need to monitor constantly putting so much mental pressure on ourselves.

[00:21:32] If today is not as good as yesterday, you know what we need to do, we need to change the direction.

[00:21:39] James Gill: Here you go,

[00:21:39] Erin Andrea Craske: right? So here comes our tactics. Because the KPIs don't show what we want them to indicate and that the whole business becomes an unmanageable beast. And on top of that, if we don't have self acceptance and comfort with ourselves, what we do?

[00:22:02] Make ourselves believe that we are now business leaders. We're now founders check big batch. I'm a founder. I have a team. So let alone you struggle with a business for all previous reasons. You also realize that you have to be a leader because this is what you're all assumes the problem in this is that not everybody is a natural born leader.

[00:22:28] I can't say people are not. They can't be leaders. All of us can be, but some of them naturally born. Some of them need a bit of, you know, understanding of what the role is entails. And from this place of not comfort, either we lead poorly. That is the resulting in disengagement of our teams and teams quitting and burning out.

[00:22:54] It's not because they're bad workers, because they're in a situation where they can't feel comfortable or we start going through multiple trainings and that is fantastic because at least it means that as leaders we understand that there's a way for improvement. You know, there is an opportunity to be better, but the problem with trainings, it's exactly the same service level.

[00:23:19] So underneath all these trainings, we're going to have our own personality with the same self acceptance issues. So trainings, they may work for a while, or they can be good for topical issues that I don't know how to build a better, how to ask for pay raise, you know, in a more appropriate way without a conflict, but if we're on a situation where we are stressed.

[00:23:54] I think we will be behaving in the way that is the most natural and appropriate to us, which means trainings are quite short lived. So those are going a lot deeper.

[00:24:07] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:24:07] Erin Andrea Craske: Yeah,

[00:24:11] James Gill: no, I, I, I, I think it's, it's quite refreshing to sort of hear that approach of, I feel like there's a lot of people I guess books out there and advice out there that is firmly in the self help camp.

[00:24:25] And then there's a lot of advice and an education out there about business advice, but rarely do the two meet, I think. And so it's, it's very refreshing to hear your approach and sort of acknowledging those two meeting and being very important to each other. You know

[00:24:44] Erin Andrea Craske: what? There's another very quick example because we didn't touch upon profitability.

[00:24:49] Cause I got a bit focused on sales because then we believe, I believe. I believe that we believe that return on investment is profitability because we say profit, profit, profit, we imply return on investment, which is okay for immediate, you know, gain, but profitability is something that is longer term.

[00:25:11] And what's And again, what we tend to do and why it's so much together focused on mental health and business growth is that when we set goals, and usually goals are supposed to be for one year, I would say we give our best to achieve this goal. Again, we may not understand the why's behind what can achieve it.

[00:25:37] But we really strive because that's the most important thing and what it brings to us If you look back at it, so if you don't achieve your goal, how do you fail, right? Usually it's it's another kind of blow to your self esteem Your love, esteem as a leader, your confidence That you're able to achieve it.

[00:26:02] So, all together, you put everything on this, you know, plate of achieving a goal. If it's not happening, your mental health, self esteem, self confidence suffer. If you achieve it, what do you do? You celebrate, short lived celebration, and you set another goal. And this rat race, you know, thing continues. So my approach, the one that I advocate for is to look at your business holistically.

[00:26:36] It's not about goals. It's about the destination we talked about earlier. It's about improving your business streams because business, it's an organism. It's not only about sales and KPIs, you have so many different functions. And if you improve each of these functions, little by little, every day, making them better.

[00:26:58] All together, you will come to holistic business improvement without much stress because you're focusing only on the next step about how we're going to make it better today. You give your people opportunity to contribute to, you know, voice what is not working in their areas and give them freedom to make it better according to how they want to perform, how they want to drive it.

[00:27:22] And you will see that without much effort, your business is improving. You know, and profitability, even longer term is going to be a result of this improvement. It's impossible to have better business with less money. It doesn't work this way. So that's, you know, it just again, it's just a change of your mindset.

[00:27:43] It's not a rocket science. Yeah,

[00:27:48] James Gill: no, absolutely. I mean, you're painting a picture there of, I think a world we'd all like to be living in, I think, with, with, I guess, yeah, businesses that are far more successful, but lives that are calmer or leaders that are More in tune with their own strengths and weaknesses.

[00:28:05] I, I mean, I think we all, we all want to live in a world like that as, as leaders, as employees, as, as What stops us? Perhaps because we haven't read your book yet. I don't know.

[00:28:19] Erin Andrea Craske: Well, my book is mostly, it's about strategy.

[00:28:22] James Gill: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I, I, I think it's, I, I mean, already, It's, it's very inspiring to hear your, everything you've shared so far and then I'm conscious we're almost at time.

[00:28:33] So I, I, I just, I know one of the things I always like to ask our guests is, is their thoughts on the future. And I, I think maybe you're already understanding a lot of what you think about the future, but, but do you have any thoughts of how business is going to change in the future? Any hopes, any, any, Suggestions for how business should change in the future.

[00:28:52] It'd be great to hear your, your thoughts. Oh,

[00:28:54] Erin Andrea Craske: well, you know what, a bit with the way that we're using businesses to immediately generate cash, it's not going to get much better. That's how, you know, as, as for sure. So either we. Those businesses who would like to be more sustainable longer term, they either really start looking at wise and appreciating why behind every fortune or misfortune, or, I think it's gonna come to the point when it's really stopped working.

[00:29:30] 'cause otherwise I can't, you know, I, I, it's like a dead end. Mm-Hmm, . I can't see where it can grow from the place we're in right now. if we don't change, take another turn.

[00:29:44] James Gill: So I'm not

[00:29:45] Erin Andrea Craske: particularly, the only thing that I'm positive about is the new generations. Cause I believe that they are capable of launching more good businesses

[00:29:59] James Gill: and, you know,

[00:30:00] Erin Andrea Craske: through their values, they are capable to do more good.

[00:30:04] to the planet or to other people than older generations, but again, to have it sustainable and to achieve what they want to achieve, start looking at WISE.

[00:30:15] James Gill: Sure. I, yeah, I, I am very hopeful that we are seeing more and more businesses every day that, that Yeah. I'm thinking more in the ways that you're outlining here and thinking about not just profit in isolation, but, but how they can be more thoughtful, be more, more more conscious with, with how they, how they run, how they're led, how everyone wants to work there.

[00:30:37] And I, yeah, I, I, I think, I think I'm optimistic. There's a good, there's a good future here, Erin. I think, I think we're going to be doing, doing a lot better over the coming years. I, I, I hope so. We need. And I hope

[00:30:51] Erin Andrea Craske: to be able to help you achieve it.

[00:30:53] James Gill: Absolutely. No, I, I think it's, it's fantastic that you're sharing your experience over, over the years.

[00:31:01] And, and really wanted to share it as far and wide as possible so that, that more people can hopefully adopt this kind of mindset, both in. small businesses, but also in large, large corporates as well. I think that's, I know it's very hard to change attitudes in a, in bigger companies sometimes. So Erin, I, I hugely appreciate you joining me on the show today.

[00:31:22] Thank you. I, I guess one last thing would be just where people can find you. We'll put some links in the show notes, but you've got your link tree there. So we'll, we'll, we'll link people to that in the notes. And I guess people can also go find your book too, right? So, yeah.

[00:31:38] Erin Andrea Craske: Yeah. So in the show notes you will find information about the link to the book.

[00:31:44] Also the promo code, or as I call it, your business statement. Okay. Effortless. That is your intention. Right? Okay. And I'm going to get help you get your 50 percent off the book mostly, obviously for UK and European audience yeah. And the information, you can also go to my website, get freebies, there are a few assessments.

[00:32:09] That you can use to see where you are with regards to effortless leadership or profitability or strategy. So you can use it basically to look at the areas for improvement that you can identify for your business. And use it as a blueprint. So that is also possible. Yeah, so go and check it out. Cool.

[00:32:30] James Gill: Amazing. Thank you, Erin. That sounds brilliant. Okay, cool. Alright, well, thank you so much. Thank you so much, Erin, for joining me on the episode today. And thank you to everyone for listening. Really appreciate everyone listening in and tuning in to the show. If you've enjoyed today's show and want to share, let us know.

[00:32:48] Erin's great, great advice and ideas. Please do tell your friends and leave us a positive review as well. It really helps to spread the word about what we're doing here. So thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time.