The EcoSend Podcast

S6E11
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[00:00:00] Chris W: Welcome to the EcoSend podcast. Be inspired, educated, and entertained by the world's most ambitious leaders putting climate at the top of their agenda.

[00:00:17] Welcome back for an extra special episode of the EcoSend podcast today. We're back with our second in person wrap up episode of the show. Thank you very much for joining us. My name is Chris. I'm the customer success lead here at Ecosend. Today in the hot seat or the hot sofa, I'm delighted to welcome our host, James Gill, CEO at Ecosend to talk us through his learnings from running both the Ecosend podcast and from running Ecosend itself.

[00:00:41] Really happy to have you here, James, to bring season six to a close and a bit of a chance to reflect on guest stories and all the lessons we've learned from the past season, if had another really great lineup of guests, I think this series ranging from ethical email consultants, purpose driven entrepreneurs, sustainable advertising consultants, and even an episode about handbags made out of fire hoses.

[00:01:03] So really looking forward to cracking this episode with you, James, getting your thoughts, but. First how are you doing today?

[00:01:09] James Gill: Yeah, pleasure to be here chris. Thank you. Thank you so much for organizing this I i'm always amazed at how quickly, Series goes round and yeah series six. It's quite something Yeah, so looking forward to unpacking it all there's been so much from this This series

[00:01:25] Chris W: let's dive in so one thing.

[00:01:26] I think i've noticed a lot from this series is we welcomed a lot of experts Who are really passionately pursuing ethical or sustainable initiatives, but within industries that you wouldn't normally associate with as sustainable thinking particular ollie ollie dean You From the good net episode nine, we talked to us about how advertising can drive sustainability forwards.

[00:01:47] I think when you mentioned the word advertising to most people, you'd think of Don Draper or spammy Facebook ads, not something you traditionally associate with holistically minded business. But their work is really vital to transforming these more controversial industries for the future. You know, I know you and I, we attend quite a few events in the sustainability calendar and.

[00:02:06] Quite often it's all the same faces, the same people. We're still not quite reaching into that general business sort of community conscious. And at the end of the day, we can't drive sustainability forward just with a small minority. So my question is what do you think can be done to help seed and nurture sustainability or ethical business initiatives within the more controversial industries?

[00:02:27] James Gill: Yeah, it's a, it's a great question, Chris. And I think, you know, there's been multiple episodes in this series where. We've been talking into businesses that well, some of them have been very similar to ours. You know, I think Ollie's Ollie's business is a lot of parallels there to what we're doing at eco send and you know yuval obviously in the email space herself, through to yeah, as you said people turning fire hoses into handbags, um and and I think this whole concept of sustainability In business is still while we've made tremendous progress.

[00:03:02] It is still just getting started clearly and I I think the the idea of how in some of these more challenging industries to Get more people talking about it and thinking about it and making positive change I think we've found ourselves and you know, I think ollie shared a lot of this himself And in fact some of the other guests as well.

[00:03:24] It's Often trying to think about the hardest person to convince you know the person who's most staunchly against Anything climate related we are not all leaders in the climate space and not everyone, Cares about the climate and the planet. I know that might be hard to believe on a podcast where we're talking about where these worlds collide but I I think I I think the the climate piece is Is Is not on people's minds.

[00:03:56] For very good reasons, you know, people have got very clear actionable targets to hit and goals to See through and when push comes to shove I think we've all in our personal lives made decisions that maybe we sometimes do compromise on climate and sustainability I think one of the things we've learned and seem to resonate with with ollie as well was that it's finding ways where there's mutual alignment and benefit there, in that It doesn't have to be a sacrifice doing something about climate does not have to mean sacrificing profit or growth necessarily Sometimes it does but I think the best businesses and the businesses that are excelling And succeeding and that have a very bright future are Making positive change for the planet and the world, but they're not doing that at a compromise if anything It's part of their whole ethos and the reason they exist and how they are helping you succeed on business terms as well I think that's pretty exciting It's

[00:04:56] Chris W: a really good point and I think Olly himself actually made the point or had the statistic that Ethically minded ads or ads that score higher on the sort of ethical index outperformed standard ads at least in this survey by about 14.

[00:05:09] So there definitely is that business initiative How can you argue with that? How

[00:05:13] James Gill: can you argue with that?

[00:05:14] Chris W: Stats don't lie as they say so yeah, it's definitely I think there's a need to promote that. That point that there's a real business incentive to this. It's not a sacrifice to choose the sustainability Angle or the ethical business initiative.

[00:05:28] It's actually the right decision for you as a as a business You

[00:05:31] James Gill: Totally. I think, you know, when we look at that for ourselves at EcoSend and we talk to customers, there's often people on the team that care deeply and passionately about the planet, but there are also people that have very clear goals in terms of when it comes to email, open rates, click through rates, ultimate revenue generated, if we're not satisfying their needs, then.

[00:05:53] There's only so much impact we can make ourselves on the climate front. So ensuring those are aligned and considered, and if anything, improved by the sustainability work. I think those are just very exciting businesses to be, to be part of. Yeah.

[00:06:07] Chris W: I love that. I love that. I think for me, my favorite episode of this season was with Cressa Wesling of Elvis and Cressa and her story about transforming these disused fire hoses into handbags.

[00:06:18] While also donating thousands of pounds to the London Fire Brigade charity and restoring a degraded farm. So, you know, when you hear stories like this, I think it really opens your mind to the human potential for positive change. And yet, examples like Elvis and Cressid remain very much anomalies. So, what do you think can be done to Encourage business leaders and perhaps especially the future generation of leaders to follow the Elvis and Cressa examples of holistic business rather than just continue this current narrative of profit at all costs.

[00:06:53] James Gill: Yeah, the episode with Cressa was, was really inspiring, I think. And, you know, if, if anyone watching hasn't seen that or, or listened to that yet, um, episode four, episode four, there we go. Better memory than me, Chris. You know, looking at a business that is not only selling a sustainable products or, you know, turning new life into a previously a product that would have gone to landfill into something that can be have a wonderful life ahead of it, but also to think about their business practices.

[00:07:28] From the ground up like we're not just selling the right thing and making the right thing, but we're thinking about where we're located the culture within the team the I don't know probably even whatever the desks are made of, you know that level of care I think that's something that you know, I know a lot of businesses strive towards, you know It's such a wonderful thing to try and think not only Not only in your, what you sell, but what you do in your personal life, what you do in your business life, how these all kind of ultimately feed up into truly living good values and being a great citizen of planet earth.

[00:08:07] I look at that work that Cressa's done and her team have done and I, I am truly inspired and I think it's, it's something I look at, I think most people can view that as an aspiration or many people can view it as an aspiration. I know I do. In terms of looking at it, though, practically moving to that approach, I think you just have to take it one step at a time.

[00:08:32] It's like with any significant change in a business, like. If you do something overnight, then Hey, there's a lot of risk in that. But I think if you, if you look at, you know, how do we, how do we consider the workspace we're in? How do you consider how your team get to work? How do you consider your suppliers?

[00:08:53] All of these things that we've talked about in the past, you know, for instance, in the part of the B Corp movement as well, it's like encouraging you to look at those things. And I think most businesses. You know short in the short term, we're probably not going to get to that level of incredible work that Cress has done But can you take steps towards that today?

[00:09:12] Can you literally today take some steps towards that and i'm sure Most of us if we reflect and look deep enough probably yes, and that's how that journey Starts and continues. I love us. We yeah, we

[00:09:24] Chris W: don't all have to jump on a degraded farm and Not overnight everything and But yeah, we can all make small steps in the immediate environment we all have.

[00:09:33] Yeah, definitely. I think the power of personal brand has been also another big theme of this particular season. I'm thinking in particular of. Yuval Ackerman of Ethical Emails, Carlos Terrell, both very prolific on platforms like LinkedIn and seem to drive a lot of their business forward via their brand.

[00:09:51] But personal branding is a tricky one, and I think we all know business leaders who get it wrong. Look into me there, Chris. Wink wink. How do you think founders and entrepreneurs can strike that right balance of building a personal brand and posting regularly on social media platforms without falling into inauthenticity or becoming sort of slaves to the algorithm?

[00:10:15] Yeah,

[00:10:15] James Gill: no joking aside. I I do think this is a topic on my mind a lot I think what we're doing at eco send we always have this conflict of of whether we're doing too much or too little to share You know what we're working on and our ethos and our values and our our goals. I think perhaps many people running businesses many people if you know you watching this maybe wondering how much do I share and how much do I?

[00:10:42] I think there's a landscape that has shifted over the last handful of years where it's, it's increasingly encouraged to share more and to, to build a personal brand and personally share, but also to peel back the curtain on what's happening in your business. You know, there's a lot of interest out there in terms of, People's desire to learn what's going on inside this other business.

[00:11:12] What can I learn? And I think the authenticity piece absolutely comes up for for me I you know, I I'm not very good at saying anything, I don't truly believe in and and I think that's been something I've been very conscious of. And, and I think it, it stems from having, I think it honestly stems all the way back into like your personal values as a human, like, and getting clear on those.

[00:11:40] And that trickles down into the business you want to run and the position you're in and the role you're in. And I think there's no shortcut to those things. But I I think yeah there's being cognizant of the industry and the market and and trying to ensure you get attention and ultimately hopefully What's the purpose of that attention for us at eco send?

[00:12:04] It's to hopefully find more people who will ultimately switch to us and and make some positive change in the world I think I think as a personal branding exercise, it's just, yeah, if you're the only place where the authenticity is lost is if you start saying stuff you don't truly believe in. And if you start doing that, then that is a slippery slope.

[00:12:24] If you stay true to your values and believe what you're saying, then whether you're talking once a week or once a day You know that that's not the hard bits. It's making sure you're clear on what you truly

[00:12:38] Chris W: value. Absolutely I think we've seen there's so much value in in the sass community in the building building public movement and These these kinds of initiatives where people are being open about everything all aspects of their business all the you know warts and all all the good and all the bad rather than just the sort of survivorship bias of the one person who happened to make it overnight and just having the The glory story just from that so I think we live in a time where Authenticity people are really craving authenticity.

[00:13:07] It's really so difficult to find it and if you can Use that maybe as you're sort of guiding light or that's as your north star Then that will ensure that the content that you do post is of genuine value and genuine genuine interest to people

[00:13:22] James Gill: I I would totally agree and I I also think and I don't think I used to view it this way, but I I think One of the beautiful things about social media, maybe also about email, is it's not a one way street.

[00:13:38] When you open up and are authentic and share, I'd like, I don't ever do that myself and I don't think we do as a business on the assumption that we're just putting out a message and people should take it. We often share stuff where we want to To have a conversation and we want to learn. And I think that's a hugely valuable piece for anyone building an organization or, you know, the topic of sustainability and learning about the climate.

[00:14:09] Like for us, that's been a big part of why this podcast even exists. It's about sharing what we're learning, the process of sharing what we're learning, helping us own, form our own understanding of those topics. We're, we're learning about. And then. Oftentimes sharing stuff that we've gotten wrong, but we don't know it's wrong yet And we find out it's wrong by hearing feedback and I think that two way process that dialogue that iteration like there's people who learn from that and use that to get better and incrementally improve over time or there's people that Don't view it that way and I know what side I would rather be on.

[00:14:48] Chris W: No, I love that. I think That is the power of personal branding, where it becomes this interactive conversation between you and the audience. Whereas maybe, I don't know, five years ago, you'd shout something out from the company LinkedIn page, and there wouldn't be that interaction. And now it's much more focused on, you know, you as a founder or entrepreneurs actually talking in public and talking with people, not just at people.

[00:15:10] It's much more yeah, much more interactive, much more, much more human.

[00:15:13] James Gill: Hmm.

[00:15:15] Chris W: James nearly the end of 2024 2025 rather creeping around the corner I think this time last year we were rounding off season three of the podcast getting close to 5 000 trees planted And now we're at the end of season six We've hit over 10 000 trees planted which has been a real highlight for me and i'm sure for you as well But turning to 2025, what are you most excited for?

[00:15:40] About the year to come

[00:15:42] James Gill: Yeah, I think it's it has absolutely flown by i'm still trying to piece together where the where 2024 has gone it's not over yet Of course but I, I know by the time this airs, it probably will be or maybe it already has, and I hope it's good in the future. But I, I think the, the journey we've been on with EcoSend so far has been incredibly exciting.

[00:16:02] There's been a lot to figure out. I mean, still like we only launched EcoSend really, what, in March of last year of 2020. So it's, it's it's felt like a big journey we've been on, but also we've barely gotten started yet. And I think the, the various metrics we can look at, you know, planting 10, 000 trees, I think huge praise to Chris Yu and the team, but also those wouldn't exist without people switching to us and using us and becoming customers and partners and all sorts of trusted people placing trust in us, which has been just so fantastic and really makes me proud of what we've done.

[00:16:44] I I think There's so much to reflect on from the last year of which has been positive and, and, and exciting. And I think we all just feel really charged up about how we build on that and how we take that forward. You know, I know when we posted about where we shared about 10, 000 trees the other day A lot of people were like what next and it's like well You got to add another digit to that right?

[00:17:11] You got to take it to a hundred thousand but I think you know, I think we all know that a number is One thing but it's like what that means and what that represents it's like we're not really trying to do this just to plant trees like we are trying to Have a positive impact on the planet on the climate on the the planet We all share as humans and that ultimately is an impact on other humans And I think we're trying to put something really good into the world and we all get a real Drive from that and a real kick out of that.

[00:17:48] I also think we're working with just so many wonderful organizations and And trying to help people, you know, we're doing stuff on the climate, which I'm very proud of, but also the email piece. And, you know, we are building software. That software ultimately impacts millions of people. When you think about our customers and their customers and their audiences, I just think we have so much opportunity ahead.

[00:18:12] For influencing more people to think about the planet, make better decisions in their lives and to help the organizations that we work with just communicate their values better and more effectively. So I think there's just so much opportunity ahead. Obviously. Got a little break over christmas, I hope and then we'll be fresh to it in the new year with many exciting Opportunities and challenges to come so i'm sure and for my most important question james.

[00:18:42] What are your plans for christmas? I will be at home. I will be cooking for too many family members and I believe I'll have three dogs in my house Three dogs and how many humans? Unfortunately more humans than

[00:18:55] Chris W: that chris. Yeah James been a real pleasure. Thank you very much for joining us today in the hot seat.

[00:19:01] And where can people find you? Yeah,

[00:19:03] James Gill: well head to eco send. io. That is our site. That's where we spend most of our time and and and yeah, just James at eco send. io is my email Please drop me a note there on LinkedIn and the usual places. But yeah, you'll find me. Thank you, James. Thank

[00:19:20] Chris W: you.

[00:19:21] Thanks everyone for tuning in for this special edition episode. We'll be back with season seven of the podcast with many more fantastic guests already lined up to share their wisdom and their stories about building better businesses and making the world a better place. So we look forward to seeing you there soon.

[00:19:37] Thank you again for your time, James.

[00:19:38] James Gill: Thanks Chris. It's a pleasure. Cheers.