S7E10 'Wrapping-up Season Seven' with Chris & James π
We're back for an extra special episode of the Ecosend podcast today. Thank you very much for joining us. My name is Chris. I'm the customer success lead here at Ecosend. And today in the hot seat, I'm delighted to welcome back our host, James Gill, CEO of Ecosend, to talk us through his learnings from running both the Ecosend podcast and from running Ecosend itself over the past few months.
Chris W:Really happy to have James here to bring season seven to a close, and for a chance to reflect on our guests' stories, and all the lessons we've learned over the past season. We've had another great lineup of guests this series, ranging from digital sustainability agencies, purpose driven entrepreneurs, green AI builders, and even an episode about sustainable aviation fuel. So I'm really looking forward to cracking into this episode with you today, James. But first, how are you doing?
James Gill:Yeah. No. Thank you, Chris, for having me. It's it's a pleasure to be here. It's a pleasure to be on this side of the the conversation.
James Gill:And, yeah, really, I I think it's it's always incredible how quickly a a series of the podcast goes by, you know, 10 or so episodes where, again, I find it's it's one of the it really is one of the great pleasures of of doing this job where I get to speak to so many inspiring people doing amazing work in the world of sustainability. And every time I have a conversation with every single guest, it it always pushes me to reflect on what I'm doing, whether I'm doing enough, where I can do more. And and I think as anyone who's listened to the the shows in this series will find there's there's something to take from each episode and and whether it's something you learn, maybe you're inspired by, entertained by. And I I I I think that the podcast just continues to grow in in delivering on all of those, and it's it's just a wonderful thing to be part of. So, I'm I'm thrilled to be taking a bit of time with you today, actually, Chris, to just kind of look back on this series.
James Gill:And, and I must say to anyone who's not aware of it, Chris, by the way, is the one who actually makes the episodes happen behind the scenes, getting them all edited and ready to roll. So, Chris, you've been as involved in each and every one of these episodes as me really. So, yeah, looking forward to unpacking it all.
Chris W:Thank you, James. Yeah, do my best to help. Do my best. So yeah, let's jump in. I think, since we wrapped up season six at the end of last year, it really seems that the tech landscape has changed quite dramatically with this, meteoric rise of AI.
Chris W:And we have these new AI technologies and innovations seemingly released every week, at the moment. And with this comes a lot of uncertainty and a lot of strong opinions about the role which AI will play in the future in the digital landscape. And I know this season in particular, had two really great guests to discuss AI. That was Matt DeVille from High Yield and Robert Koos from Green PT. I don't know, you know, talking around the concept of green AI, but we know that the energy consumption of AI is rising just as fast as its usage.
Chris W:So in your opinion, is it possible to have a balanced viewpoint on the impact of AI in the digital landscape over the next months and years?
James Gill:Yeah, I think the AI landscape, listening will know how rapidly things are evolving and I think even for those of us who are absorbed by technology in their daily lives or pay a lot of attention to technology in their lives and even are passionate about technology and the latest trends. Like, I don't know a single person who can keep up with the changing landscape of AI. Like, anything anything I I talk about and we talk about today on Monday, June 2025 will probably be out of date by the time we finish this episode, let alone in a week or a month or a year's time. And I think I think with conversation around AI and how it sits with sustainability, I think there are certain things I try to balance and I know that perhaps I naturally tend towards being a more optimistic person, but I think with AI there is First of all, I think we're very We're still very early on in the full ramifications of what AI might have on society at large. I think I think things are gonna increasingly look very different and at a just a shockingly fast pace.
James Gill:And so I think when we're at such an early stage, it's very hard to accurately draw out, sort of any predictions from where we are today on on any of the kind of attributes, especially for someone like myself who I would not proclaim to be an AI expert in any way. But I found I found from the podcast, this series, was it was really, I found it very inspiring in particular when we were speaking with, with Robert from from Green PT because for those who didn't hear that show, Robert and the team are essentially building, an alternative to chat GPT for the classic kind of chatbot AI questions, but powered by renewable energy. And I think that is a really great simple, answer to anyone who's worried about the the climate impact of the energy and sheer energy consumption of of of using something like ChatGPT. But I think that sort of is that is one part of it, but there's so many other fast facets to the the conversation, whether it's, the ethical side and what it means for the job market, what it means for the creative works that have been used for the training purposes, what it means for all sorts of ramifications and second and third order consequences.
James Gill:I think one of the things that also makes me very optimistic though for AI is that it's a very empowering technology. So many of the problems we have with sustainability and building a better future for the planet are around solving difficult problems, figuring out ways of communicating those difficult problems, finding ways of bringing people together. It's a lot of problem solving to do, and there's a lot of knowledge needed. And one of the great things about AI is how suddenly we can all have conversations for nothing with this vast treasure trove of the world's information and knowledge. So I think used in certain ways there are opportunities for a lot of people to be very empowered to make change and to learn.
James Gill:There's a lot of opportunity for incredibly advanced scientific research to be developing thanks to this technology too. So I think there's there's definitely not as with all things in sustainability this sort of yes or no, right or wrong. It's not a binary thing. There are certainly massive unknowns and massive questions about the energy usage and energy demands of this technology but there's also massive, massive opportunity around what it could mean for solving some of the problems we have. So whatever happens, we're not going to be putting AI back into the bottle.
James Gill:We're not going to kind of rewind where we're at as much as maybe some people would like to. So what happens next is anyone's guess, but I think there's a lot to be very excited for as well as a lot of things to to be mindful of.
Chris W:It's really interesting to think of your perspective of the enablement of AI, because I think there's a lot of, focus on the negative potential consequences. Yeah. You say there isn't very enabling factor. And again, it probably comes down to that classic thing of it's not the power itself, it's how that power is yielded, which will be the decider in its effect, whether that's positive or negative. But I think we can know for certain it will be significant, the impact of AI, positive or negative, still to be defined.
Chris W:But I'm sure we could spend a lot a lot of time speaking about AI, but, wanted to move on now to episode five of the season where we welcomed, Sergio. Sergio Fuente Alba from Grow Better Agency, who takes quite a strong stance on marketers and a responsibility he sees for marketers to refuse to work for certain companies. And Sergio defines this as responsible ethical marketing. And marketers by definition have an incredibly strong influence on the public. Do you think there are any guidelines marketers can look to to help them find that balance between promoting the right messages and ultimately also paying the bills at the end of the month?
James Gill:Yeah. I I really enjoyed speaking to Sergio, and, it was very refreshing to speak to someone that's so so clear with their their ethos, their values, and and isn't afraid to kind of put that into their business practices as well, and to be so open about sharing that as well. So, yeah, anyone who didn't catch Sergio's episode, then, yeah, I would again recommend going and checking that one out. I think this whole topic is is very it it it matters a lot to me and I think to all of us here at EcoSen because we think about this a lot in terms of with EcoSend, we want to be building this platform that lives up to our standards on digital sustainability and thinking about that sort of how we can build the most sustainable platform on the tech side, making sure we're mindful of our emissions and how we're with our practices. But I think there's this also this aspect where we absolutely know that if we help you send a campaign and think about the any of those consequences, those omissions from the digital side of things, that pales into pales in comparison to if you are a business using us and selling a product that has an environmental impact that is not is not in line with those values.
James Gill:You know, if you're sending a campaign in EcoSend and you're selling oil, then then that is, like, that is not the right that that that is not something that makes us feel good. That doesn't make us sleep easy at night. And, obviously, we do things ourselves as a company to we don't work with huge groups of types of organizations and types of campaigns through having those clear values and I think this is something for us as marketers to think about in any field. If what we truly believe in is change and doing things for the better, then if we're fortunate enough to be working at a company or an organization that is trying to do the right thing then as marketers, you know, we have this responsibility to be making sure we're communicating that right, like being transparent, being clear about what we know and what we don't know, not trying to pretend like we know everything, trying to make sure that when we make claims we can back them up with research, trusted authoritative sources on where that information has come from, making sure we're not contributing to distrust in the whole world of sustainability by saying things that are not necessarily true, and being mindful of that within the organization because there can be so many different stakeholders with different goals and different priorities and all too often the sustainability push often gets pushed aside for other important, meaningful things in the business or is embellished and turned into something that it wasn't intended for originally.
James Gill:I think as marketers we have this incredible responsibility there. I would also say that another big thing is that marketers have an immense amount of power if I'm honest. Like, we're the ones who encourage people to make purchasing decisions and if at all possible and if that's something if what we care about on a personal level is looking after the planet we all share, then if you're at a business that's ultimately selling product or doesn't care about that, like, trying to be a force for change there, whether that's trying to encourage the business to shift its practices from within or if that isn't possible or achievable then as a marketer you can choose to go elsewhere and promote a business that hopefully is doing more good and I think anyone selling anything really it's going to have an impact on the planet but how do we choose to spend our time promoting and driving consumption of the things that have the most positive impact and driving that change? And I think there's so many difficult things, difficult conversations, difficult conversations with oneself there that are very easy for me to talk about on a podcast, but, I think they're they're difficult things that I don't think, anyone can kind of pretend don't exist if they truly care about this stuff and I wish I could say it's as easy as just like here's my three top tips and this is going to make you great as a sustainable environmentally conscious marketer.
James Gill:But if you're doing that within an organization that just is that's just incompatible with, then it's a very difficult problem to solve. So I think I I love talking to people who are going through these kind of challenges, and, for some people, it's gonna be easier than others. But I think a lot of it is about being in an environment where where that is where that is important for not just you but everyone on the team.
Chris W:It feels like there's a degree of bringing one's personal values in into the workplace in the sense that there's a big dissonance if in your free time you recycle and you follow sustainability practices, but as you say, you're working for a large corporate oil and gas, company and doing their PR campaigns and marketing. There's Yeah. There's a you you we can't afford to have that split between personal and, work life, if we're gonna have the right impact we need on the climate challenge going forward.
James Gill:I totally agree. And it's just a difficult one for people in individual circumstances. And, you know, I think there is a good case for trying to be the change within an organization, but I'm also aware that it's not always always possible. So, yeah, it's I think it's it's gonna be a difficult a difficult thing for a lot of people. But, yeah, as you as you say, I think it's it's about trying to be clear on what you personally believe and trying whatever you can do to to bring that with you in your professional life too.
James Gill:Easy words to say, but difficult things to do in practice even for those that are most passionate and most clear. I appreciate.
Chris W:Agreed. Agreed. And I think related to that, we know that there are many great marketers and companies out there trying to raise awareness around, in particular, the carbon footprint of our online activities. You can think of our friends at Whole Grain Digital, Conscious Marketing Movement, and in particular, our guests for episode eight, Jesse from Sprout. And Jesse raised an interesting point, I thought, on how difficult it can be to make people care about digital sustainability.
Chris W:And I think this was echoed by Orbe at Dandelion Branding, who cited a Spring of Nature study that 89% of people surveyed were worried about the climate but remained silent on climate issues. And then you add to that the statistic from, Creek and Pine on episode four that 250,000 websites are created every day. What do you think can be done to move the needle on this around raising awareness around digital sustainability?
James Gill:Yeah, I think sustainability overall is a topic that has been, I think, somewhat set back in at the start of 2025 by certain changes in America, and I think it can sometimes feel like a tall order trying to get people to not just care about sustainability but care about digital sustainability as well, which to many people is not top of mind. I think the growth of AI has actually put digital sustainability on the agenda perhaps more than it ever has been before because it feels more connected to our daily lives than perhaps it did in the past. I think as with any of these, as with any topic in sustainability, as with any change in life, it has to start with awareness and being conscious of what is going on. So I think one of the biggest things with, I would say, as much about sustainability as digital sustainability, trying to learn about it and trying to be aware of it and understand it. You know, we we at EcoSend are all kind of tech geeks and nerds, but even then, we have a lot to learn with the vast complexity of the internet and software and how we use the web and what different components have different effects on energy use and ultimately emissions.
James Gill:It's an incredibly complex system and that's digital sustainability and that's not the wider topic of sustainability. So there's so many factors to even be aware of and conscious of And so I think there's a tremendous responsibility for anyone in this space to focus on education and sharing what they're learning. I think that's an incredibly important part because that's a great enabler for change and like nothing can really change unless people are aware and educated on the issues. I think on digital sustainability and how it kind of manifests in terms of websites and emails and for those of us building things, whether we're like building websites for clients or building software that we sell, making emails that we run for our clients. The great thing about digital sustainability is that applying digital sustainability principles is almost always aligned with other things that usually everyone in a business wants as well, whether that's better accessibility and making sure more people can use our websites, emails, products that we're building, whether it's search engine optimization and making sure a site is well optimized to come up in Google search, whether it's conversion rate optimization and making sure you have exactly what you need on the page and nothing that distracts and fast loading times.
James Gill:Like most of the principles of digital sustainability are about the same things that those all align with. So being conscious of every single thing you put into your web page or your email, being conscious of every image you have in there and why it's there, making sure that everything loads fast, making sure that everything is compressed, making sure that, text is, well considered, making sure there's not unnecessary code. All of these things make sense on just so many levels so rarely should the conversation be do we just slap on some digital sustainability at the end. It's really about having these right approaches from the start of whatever we are building. And so I think that's the argument I would have for getting more people to care.
James Gill:You know, I want more people to care about sustainability overall. I also would like a lot more people to be doing more making more sustainable choices. If a lot more people are making sustainable choices for other reasons that's still a good thing in my eyes and perhaps that happens first before the education in some circumstances. So, yeah, I think it's just trying to find those perfect situations where it's win win win.
Chris W:You make a great point, I think we have to be realistic that at the end of the day, regardless of how much awareness one can raise around digital sustainability, there will always be that section of society who, for whatever reasons, just don't believe it or just not sufficiently motivated to make change. And a portion of those people may well hold considerable positions of influence or power within companies. You know, you may have, companies where they have fantastic leaders in sustainability, but ultimately the end decision maker and CEO does not care. For those kinds of people, we do need to make the business case for sustainability. As you mentioned, the sustainable web sustainably designed websites have faster loading times and always bringing it back to the benefits on performance that the sustainable choice makes where or or offers.
Chris W:So it's not seen as you have to make the sacrifice to have the sustainable option. It's actually the optimal business decision going forward, because not everyone will be convinced purely by the need, the planet's need, let's say.
James Gill:Yeah. I I I totally agree, Chris. And I I think as anyone who has worked in sustainability for any amount of time will know, trying to sell people on sustainability is is a challenge. People want to make more sustainable choices, generally. Very few people respond and say, I don't wanna be more sustainable, but what people also want often is cheap is a cheaper product, a better quality product, a faster delivery of a product and trying to find ways that whether as consumers or in business that we can align those goals with the more sustainable option is really the key.
James Gill:Because I think in business, at the end of the day, any business is a bunch of people and those people often have their own personal incentives to take certain actions. And if one's personal incentive is to do something over here that's not sustainable, it's gonna be basically impossible to get the more sustainable option adopted. And that's why I think for anyone involved in sustainability, it's it's finding the the ways to align those incentives to make sure that the sustainable option is the cheapest option, is the quality option, is the faster option and often it is or it can be And I I think we need to stop hoping that people will just pick a more sustainable option because they're feeling they're feeling generous because I think we all you can't ignore the wider realities of it's difficult. It's difficult building a business. It's difficult building a career.
James Gill:It's it's difficult developing as an individual in a in a big organization. Like, we've got to find ways where this aligns and sustainability is no longer this afterthought secondary consideration. It would be nice if gotta find ways of bringing it in as as the sort of covert underlying reason for the other good stuff, I think.
Chris W:Absolutely agree, Ian. We'll never win pitching sustainability to business leaders out of sympathy. Has to be more concrete layers to it. Taking things on a slightly different angle now, our episode with Renne sorry, with Frieda at Renne Materials really introduced this quite fascinating and somewhat counterintuitive concept of the rebound effect, which is a very important concept, I think, for people working in sustainability or in the charitable sector in particular to be aware about. Can this be a useful concept for marketers and entrepreneurs in the digital space to consider?
James Gill:Yeah. I I found I found the, the episode with Frieda really, really inspiring and and incredibly informative, actually. Again, I will do my my job here and pitch the this episode to anyone who hasn't seen it, but I I would highly recommend checking it out because it's a world that I I honestly have no had no awareness of until until we do started talking about it with Frieda. But essentially, Rene Materials take otherwise waste materials from the textile world, fashion world, and put them on a marketplace on the web, and anyone can buy them. So materials that would have otherwise just ended up getting thrown away and chucked in landfill actually have a new lease of life.
James Gill:And then people can whether that's designers, fashion designers, artists, all sorts, anyone, can buy materials that otherwise that would probably be out of reach price wise or they'd have to buy in such great quantities they couldn't otherwise get hold of them. Probably exposing people to materials they never even thought they might need or or want. But, yeah, I I think one of the really interesting concepts that came out of that was this this idea of the rebound effect where, Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was, they they charge for these materials. You could argue that why don't they just give them away for free? And they found that if they were given away for free, people would just take, take, take and not really have a concept of whether they there was any downside to to to acquiring them.
James Gill:And so consumption of these these materials actually went up, and and there was increased wastage, which ultimately didn't help the problem that they were trying to solve in the first place. That was my understanding of rebound effect. Have I got that right, Chris?
Chris W:Yes. I think, yeah, in a nutshell, it it sort of diminishes the value of the repurposed items. And I think that the point as well was that because people are not having their budget taken up for some of these items, they're freed up to just consume more elsewhere. So you actually don't stop the trend of consumption. People are just taking the free materials, maybe, as you say, wasting a bunch of them and still having, you know, budget to go and buy buy things they don't need, which ruins the whole point of kind of freedom and running materials mission around circular economy, essentially, like, you know, it's it's economy.
Chris W:Right? So, yeah, I think, yeah, nailed it.
James Gill:Yeah. It's it's and hearing you actually say that there, Chris, as well, it's it's I found it fascinating because it's sort of this aspect where changing something to free kind of actually ruins the whole the the economy of the whole thing. It ruins the whole impact of it because there's there's this benefit to the the company or people giving the waste materials because they they get some money for something that otherwise would have gone to to landfill. So there's this incentive that wasn't there before that is they get to earn from what was otherwise waste, and for the consumer, they can acquire something that is cheaper than otherwise would be available elsewhere, but not free. And as soon as you go to free, it breaks this whole model, which I I find fascinating because on the surface, it seems like free would be better.
James Gill:And And I think to me it reminded me of something that I came across not that long ago, which is this concept of the Jevons paradox, J E V O N S, Jevons paradox, which was, I think there was a sort of a study of essentially the light bulb and essentially as light bulbs became more efficient which is obviously a good thing like we're using less energy to power a light bulb that's great and so the increased efficiency over time is considered a very good thing for energy usage and energy consumption but because it became so efficient it became easier and easier to why not put a light bulb there? Why not use a light bulb here and there? And so actually over time, the amount of energy needed for lighting increased because everyone's got these highly efficient light bulbs. And and now essentially, the the overall demand has actually increased even though the thing itself has gotten more efficient. And I thought there was some correlation there in my mind in that we sometimes optimize to something and I don't even know if it's a good versus bad thing but it's just something that I find fascinating to be aware of of human behavior where it's difficult.
James Gill:It's difficult with anything in sustainability. You try to do the right thing, but human behavior is a very difficult thing to predict. And I think with economics, economics, the free price tag is so different to 1p. And there's this just free, just weird things go on, and sometimes it can be really hard to predict. And I think we we have ourselves at EcoSend talked about this quite a bit of email being this thing that people think of as free.
James Gill:Like, we all have a Gmail account of some sort, and for the most part, most people don't pay for Gmail. Does that mean email is free? Well, kinda, but then is Gmail why is Gmail free? It's it's not like Google is a charity. There's there's a reason why Gmail is free and why Gmail why Google would like your email to live there rather than elsewhere.
James Gill:And when we're a marketer, like, we send an email, at the point of sending, you don't have to necessarily pay money to send that one off campaign. Whereas if we wanna run an ad on any website or put an ad in a newspaper, you have to pay money. And I think that perception of something being free means often that there is less concern around the creation of that thing. There's less consideration around all the ins and outs of what you're trying to say or do and so I think people have this very different, approach to when they are sending email as opposed to doing other paid activities and sort of just reflecting on on that that concept of free again affecting human behavior in perhaps not always the ideal and optimistic, and best way. But, yeah, I I think, all in all, I would just say definitely check out Frieda's episode if for those who haven't haven't heard it yet.
James Gill:I I thought it was a fantastic insight into the world of textiles and and consumption and behavior that actually, gave me a lot to think about.
Chris W:Your mention of light bulbs made me think of the lighting store down the road from where I was living during COVID, which kept their lights on for the full two years of COVID without opening at any point. I don't know if that's the Jevan's paradox or just the worst case of leaving the lights on or forgetting to leave the lights on before you leave.
James Gill:Think that is actually it takes me maybe off on a tangent of again with human behaviour and maybe related to our other topic of people caring about sustainability. I think as humans, something is free or something is cheap, we just don't I think we're very even if we would not like to omit it, often we're very self motivated. Know, we go into a shop and we see something discounted to an unbelievably good price. We are motivated to buy that thing and with less regard for whether we actually need it. I think you look at the world today and consumer behavior today, how many things we buy because it's, well why not, why wouldn't I buy it?
James Gill:And the danger is we only look at it through that lens of the price and cost and we don't think about those, I guess as an economist would say, like a negative externality of like well what about the supply chain of how that product got to being there and being at that price who pays for that bit or what's paying for that and it's probably not something we necessarily want spend too much time thinking about. So it just happens. And I think it comes back to this whole thing of us all being more conscious in our in our buying decisions. Just because something is free or cheap, that doesn't mean it's actually not got a cost associated with it.
Chris W:Absolutely. And I think it comes back again to your one of your first points around awareness. If and I'd like to also be quite optimistic about human nature. I think if people had more awareness of a full supply chain or say something like chocolate, and a lot of companies, you know, probably do involve some sort of child labor at some point in their supply chain, if people had awareness of that, I'd like to think they would make the right choice and choose the company that doesn't use child labor, even if they are slightly more expensive, because people are fundamentally quite quite good in the right in the right conditions, I'd like to think.
James Gill:I would like to think so. I would like to think so, and I think, yeah, yeah, I have so much to unpack on any of these points, Chris. I will resist, but yes, I would like to think so too.
Chris W:Thank you, James. Well, I know we we are already well over time, but I really wanted to, ask one final question, which is, obviously, one of the big highlights for us outside of, the podcast as as a company during, the last few months was gaining accreditation as a b corp. This is obviously a considerable milestone for us as a company. How do you feel about that and what's next for Rico Sen?
James Gill:Thank you, Chris. I couldn't be more excited for our B Corp status. I'm sure many people listening have themselves been on that journey in some shape or form with the companies they work at or run. Anyone who maybe is new to the B Corp kind of movement, who doesn't know essentially B Corp is a independent kind of organization and championing business being a force for good and encouraging businesses to do more than just aim to make a profit but actually think about their impact on the world, whether it's their supply chain, their employees, their impact on the planet and how they use resources, how they govern themselves, how transparently they report on all of that. Overall, it's an incredible movement.
James Gill:It's now approaching 10,000 companies now in the world of the B Corps and I think we were talking about this internally the other day of how 10,000 companies is a lot that's exciting. It's brilliant to see almost 10,000 businesses with that B Corp status, but last time I checked, there's a lot more than 10,000 businesses in the world. And I think that really highlights how, I think sometimes one can get caught up in a world of doing business with other like minded businesses and the real need for spreading that word a bit more and encouraging more businesses to follow. And I would love to see a world where there are a million b corps, maybe 10,000,000, a 100,000,000 B Corps. Like, I I don't actually know how many companies there are in the world, but there there are many, many, many, and and I think for more people to be thinking about how business can be a force for good, to not think I'm gonna run a business and our goal is to make profit and or I'm gonna go work at a charity or run a charity and we're gonna do good at the expense of making profit.
James Gill:I really think there are just so many tremendous opportunities for businesses to be having a more positive impact on the world around them. And I think that the whole B Corp journey, it's been it's both incredibly rewarding to finally have that that sort of that certification. But what I love about it is that it's opened our eyes to blind spots we had, know, even trying to do the right thing. There's always stuff you're not thinking about or you're not aware of and so for anyone who's interested and hasn't maybe looked into it, you can go and start that journey for free. You can go to the B Corp website and go through their impact assessment tool which is totally free to sign up and you can go and start looking at the questions and seeing do you have consideration around how you choose suppliers?
James Gill:Do you think about their supply chain and their own policies? Do you think about the customers you bring on board? Do you think about how your team are treated and what you're doing for your team? And there's questions under each of these main categories and themes. And I think it's just a great place to start just being aware and conscious of what you're doing as a company.
James Gill:Whether or not you go on to ultimately become a b corp, you know, that's totally up to anyone anyone themselves. But I think it's it's a great initiative and a great great platform to to educate oneself if they if they wanna do more of the right thing. For us at EcoSend, I think it's just given us yet more motivation to to to push this message even even further. You know, our whole mission is is to make email a force for good, to to spread positive good messages and to to encourage businesses to to follow in our footsteps and and do more of this. And and I think we've we just we just feel like we are barely scratching the surface so far of what we're doing.
James Gill:So we we are so excited. We're incredibly honored to be part of the b corp community, and, yeah, we can't wait to to meet more more b corps now. We're we're part of the the club.
Chris W:Part of the ten thousand. Yeah. Ten thousand and rising. Yeah. James, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Chris W:Thanks again so much for joining us, jumping in the hot seat. Where can people find you?
James Gill:You well, come check out EcoSend. I, I I think it'd be wonderful if you haven't already to see what we're up to. We have a very active blog with a lot of what we're up to, whether it's on our B Corp journey and sharing lots of things we're working on, or if you're sending email yourself, you know where you might want to send email from. It's Ecosend, so do check that out. If you want, please do feel free to email me.
James Gill:I'm jamesecosend. Io, and I'd be more than happy to chat.
Chris W:Thank you very much, James, and thanks everyone for tuning in for this special edition episode. Do keep an eye out on us on our YouTube channel at EcoSend. You can keep up to date there with everything we're up to across the team. And thank you again very much, James, and catch you again next time.
James Gill:Thanks, Chris. Thanks, everyone. Cheers.
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